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23rd August 2004, 05:39 AM
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jet Black you have failed to demonstrate any of this and are just making baseless assertations
What baseless assertiations? Evolution by definition is the "is change in the properties of populations of organisms". If you deny that "populations" exist, then you deny your own theory. Untill you supply the mechanism, then evolution remains a theory. |
23rd August 2004, 05:40 AM
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | | your IC arguments are baseless assertations. I'm not quite sure how you are misrepresenting me there since your reply has almost nothing to do with what I originally wrote, though it is interesting to see you ignoring the blood clotting evidence.
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23rd August 2004, 06:08 AM
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Reps: 13,290 (power: 28) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 What baseless assertiations? Evolution by definition is the "is change in the properties of populations of organisms". If you deny that "populations" exist, then you deny your own theory. Untill you supply the mechanism, then evolution remains a theory. The mechanism is mutation, is it not?
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23rd August 2004, 06:40 AM
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by Asimov The mechanism is mutation, is it not?
did you figure out what he was saying? I sure as heck didn't. please enlighten me if you did. one second he was talking about IC, and then when I present examples which refute his tentative claims (i.e. blood clotting) and comment how his IC assertations are baseless, he switches topic and starts rambling on about populations.
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23rd August 2004, 06:42 AM
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Reps: 13,290 (power: 28) | | Originally Posted by Jet Black did you figure out what he was saying? I sure as heck didn't. please enlighten me if you did. one second he was talking about IC, and then when I present examples which refute his tentative claims (i.e. blood clotting) and comment how his IC assertations are baseless, he switches topic and starts rambling on about populations. Yea...after reading his post again...I was like "huh?"
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23rd August 2004, 06:45 AM
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by Asimov Yea...after reading his post again...I was like "huh?"
he's doing it on another thread now, about Hardy Weinberg Equilibrium. It amazes me how he is unable to stick to a topic and keeps trying to slip off on some odd tangent. It is almost as if he is a .............
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23rd August 2004, 08:12 AM
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jet Black it is interesting to see you ignoring the blood clotting evidence.
There is no evidence, it is just a theory just an opinion on how it could have happened. Back in Darwin's day, Medel was the only one that actually got it right. Just about everyone else's theory for mechanism got washed out. |
23rd August 2004, 08:15 AM
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 There is no evidence, it is just a theory just an opinion on how it could have happened.
very funny john, but how it happened is not the issue here. All I have done and all I intended to do, is to demonstrate that the Blood Clotting system is not Irreducibly Complex (at least in the sense that it is unevolvable). you also still haven't substantiated your vacuous claims that any of these so called IC features appeared "suddenly" dispite claiming it numerous times.
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23rd August 2004, 08:24 AM
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Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Asimov The mechanism is mutation, is it not?
I knew this was coming, so I should have already answered it. Mutations only work with selection. With a closed system mutations would get weeded out, because they would not be an advantage. A system has to be open for them to be of any advantage. We are told within 20 or so generations a closed system would stablize itself and there would be no more evolution. Evoulution can only take place in a system where change has taken place where your so called mutation could present an advantage, so that natural selection would select it.
Black moth or white moths become dominite depending on the system they are in. In one system black is dominate, if a change in the sytem takes place then white become dominite. |
23rd August 2004, 08:35 AM
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Reps: 16,712 (power: 43) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 I knew this was coming, so I should have already answered it. Mutations only work with selection. With a closed system mutations would get weeded out, because they would not be an advantage. A system has to be open for them to be of any advantage. We are told within 20 or so generations a closed system would stablize itself and there would be no more evolution. Evoulution can only take place in a system where change has taken place where your so called mutation could present an advantage, so that natural selection would select it.
Black moth or white moths become dominite depending on the system they are in. In one system black is dominate, if a change in the sytem takes place then white become dominite.
again John forgets to note that one of the assumptions of HW equilibrium is that mutations do not occur. and so any reference to HWE is irrelevant.
mutations may become embedded within the population however purely as a result of genetic drift, and this is in itself evolution. John is also being incredibly vague about precisely what he means by "open" and "closed" system, and failing to justify why any mutations that do occur would get weeded out in the cases where the mutation confers an advantage.
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