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24th June 2010, 12:22 AM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
  
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24th June 2010, 02:57 AM
|  | Reverencing the Exalted Spirit of Man
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Reps: 440,945,404,461,670,976 (power: 440,945,404,461,699) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton  Are there any groups or societies of eudaimonists, like where you associate with others or have meetings or anything?
Yes, for example, I'm a member of the Fellowship of Reason, a group based in Atlanta, Georgia. I live too far away to attend their meetings. They have many different sorts of activities, such as philosophy study and discussion (this covers a very broad range of mainly Western philosophy, not just eudaimonisms), art appreciation courses, fiction book clubs, art contests, pot luck dinners, outdoor activities (such as running and hiking), activities for children, and their monthly celebrations of Eudaimonist values.
The "theory" behind all this is that people are social beings (as Aristotle pointed out) and benefit from fellowship with people of similar (but not necessarily identical) value systems and worldviews, and that education (growing and maintaining an active mind) is also an important aspect of flourishing.
Of course, if one casts the net of just what counts as "eudaimonism" more widely, to encompass any group centered on an especially "Greek" or neo-Aristotelian way of looking at life, one might include Objectivist salons, and Stoic (and maybe even Epicurean) communities. eudaimonia,
Mark
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Last edited by Eudaimonist; 24th June 2010 at 03:02 AM.
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24th June 2010, 03:04 AM
|  | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 67,527,722,863,596,368 (power: 67,527,722,863,607) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton It means very little. It's vacuous; it's Epicurean; it basically means "enjoy" (and the implication is that one should enjoy because there's nothing else better to do).
When Horace wrote carpe diem, he meant that we don't know what's going to come our way and we shouldn't even try...we could die tomorrow, so we should make use of today. I find a similar sentiment in Ecclesiastes. It's quite different from 'enjoy life because there's nothing else better to do'.
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24th June 2010, 04:00 AM
| | Reverencing the Exalted Spirit of Man
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Reps: 440,945,404,461,670,976 (power: 440,945,404,461,699) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton It means very little. It's vacuous; it's Epicurean; it basically means "enjoy" (and the implication is that one should enjoy because there's nothing else better to do).
If that's all you got out of that, then I can see why you are reacting as you do. But you seem to have missed something from that clip. It seems that something the teacher had said tripped your "hedonism detector", and then you ignored everything afterwards. John Keating: They're not that different from you, are they? Same haircuts. Full of hormones, just like you. Invincible, just like you feel. The world is their oyster. They believe they're destined for great things, just like many of you, their eyes are full of hope, just like you. Did they wait until it was too late to make from their lives even one iota of what they were capable? Because, you see gentlemen, these boys are now fertilizing daffodils. But if you listen real close, you can hear them whisper their legacy to you. Go on, lean in. Listen, you hear it? - - Carpe - - hear it? - - Carpe, carpe diem, seize the day boys, make your lives extraordinary.
Pay close attention to the parts I have placed in bold text. The teacher clearly did not mean that they should live extraordinarily hedonistic lives. No one describes a hedonistic life as "extraordinary". Hedonism is very ordinary.
I'm not philosophically hedonist. I know well what Epicureanism is, and I object to Epicureanism for being too philosophically hedonistic at root, instead of eudaimonistic. I'm not arguing that pleasure is the essence of the good. Rather, the good is the actualization of your potentials as a human being. That is what is fulfilling, and it doesn't just fulfill your desires, but your very existence as the individual you are. You're 43 years old? Like me you're past the halfway mark. You're not flourishing; you're in the process of dying.
Aging is not dying. I'll only be in the process of dying when I give up on life. When I stop growing as a person. When I look at life as nihilistically as you do in this thread. eudaimonia,
Mark
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Last edited by Eudaimonist; 24th June 2010 at 04:51 AM.
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24th June 2010, 04:37 AM
| | Reverencing the Exalted Spirit of Man
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Reps: 440,945,404,461,670,976 (power: 440,945,404,461,699) | | Originally Posted by Penumbra Do you ever run into a plateau? That is, a long period of time where you feel you haven't made progress? If so, what do you do to attempt to fix this? -Lyn
No, everything is absolutely perfect. Pass the collection plate and try the kool-aid. 
So you've noticed that plateaus may exist. That's good. Any challenging path has them. I think I've spent more time on the plateaus than off of them. This is an excellent question!
There is no single, easy solution to this problem, and I usually deal with it from more than one angle. In principle, getting off the plateau (of Leng -- Ha! I managed a Lovecraft reference!) requires getting into harmony with the various causes and conditions necessary for personal growth.
This is not an easy thing to summarize. Maybe I should just list a few things, and then you'll see the flavor of it.
Advice from friends and self-help books can be informative and valuable, but they carry a hidden danger. It is easy to lean on such things, expecting to be "saved" by them. You can only save yourself by taking action!
Then again, there are psychological forces within you that you won't necessarily perceive as acts of will. There is your daimon to tug you up the mountain, and there are the breezes of serenity, security, confidence, and love of life to waft you upwards as well.
Do you get what I mean by looking at this from more than one angle? It's not just about acts of will, or about what pulls you forward, or about what pushes you from behind. One of these might give you a small push or tug, but all three are needed for excellent progress.
Anyway, what do I do? I speak with friends, read positive books, ponder philosophy, look at inspiring art, choose to enjoy the day as much as I can, contemplate beauty, fall in love with my callings all over again, remind myself of my long-range goals, focus on the positive, and step outside my comfort zone now and again.
Sometimes life gives me a kick in the butt, and I wake up and realize that I'm on a plateau again. That can give me the motivation to progress.
It's important to learn what inner conflicts there might be in your motivations (that includes your comfort zone), and it's equally important to have self-love, and I mean "self-love" in the most kind and nourishing sense, almost as if you were your own child.
There's probably more that I could say, but I will leave it at this for this post. eudaimonia,
Mark
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Last edited by Eudaimonist; 24th June 2010 at 04:46 AM.
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24th June 2010, 10:12 AM
| | Gimme That Old Time Religion
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Reps: 474,698,394,322,854,976 (power: 474,698,394,322,865) | | Originally Posted by Nooj When Horace wrote carpe diem, he meant that we don't know what's going to come our way and we shouldn't even try...we could die tomorrow, so we should make use of today. I find a similar sentiment in Ecclesiastes. It's quite different from 'enjoy life because there's nothing else better to do'. Carpe as Horace used it = "enjoy" or "make use of". I don't think it's different from what I said. Originally Posted by Eudaimonist If that's all you got out of that, then I can see why you are reacting as you do. But you seem to have missed something from that clip. It seems that something the teacher had said tripped your "hedonism detector", and then you ignored everything afterwards.
John Keating: They're not that different from you, are they? Same haircuts. Full of hormones, just like you. Invincible, just like you feel. The world is their oyster. They believe they're destined for great things, just like many of you, their eyes are full of hope, just like you. Did they wait until it was too late to make from their lives even one iota of what they were capable? Because, you see gentlemen, these boys are now fertilizing daffodils. But if you listen real close, you can hear them whisper their legacy to you. Go on, lean in. Listen, you hear it? - - Carpe - - hear it? - - Carpe, carpe diem, seize the day boys, make your lives extraordinary.
Pay close attention to the parts I have placed in bold text. The teacher clearly did not mean that they should live extraordinarily hedonistic lives. No one describes a hedonistic life as "extraordinary". Hedonism is very ordinary.
I'm not philosophically hedonist. I know well what Epicureanism is, and I object to Epicureanism for being too philosophically hedonistic at root, instead of eudaimonistic. I'm not arguing that pleasure is the essence of the good. Rather, the good is the actualization of your potentials as a human being. That is what is fulfilling, and it doesn't just fulfill your desires, but your very existence as the individual you are.
I didn't mention hedonism, but it is Epicurean.  |
24th June 2010, 01:02 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 67,527,722,863,596,368 (power: 67,527,722,863,607) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton Carpe as Horace used it = "enjoy" or "make use of". I don't think it's different from what I said.
Maybe you missed this part of my post: he meant that we don't know what's going to come our way and we shouldn't even try...we could die tomorrow, so we should make use of today.
Which is quite different from:
enjoy life because there's nothing else better to do
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24th June 2010, 01:19 PM
| | Reverencing the Exalted Spirit of Man
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Reps: 440,945,404,461,670,976 (power: 440,945,404,461,699) | | Originally Posted by Chesterton Carpe as Horace used it = "enjoy" or "make use of". I don't think it's different from what I said.
I was talking about how the teacher in the movie uses the term, and "making use of" one's time is a reasonable rewording, but this does not imply hedonism. I didn't mention hedonism, but it is Epicurean.
Epicureanism is a philosophical form of hedonism. It isn't the "Roman orgy" style hedonism, but it does regard pleasure (in its capacity to allieviate pain or discomfort) as the essence of the good.
I think we've driven this subject into the ground, so to speak. Let's move on to other subjects. eudaimonia,
Mark
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24th June 2010, 01:27 PM
|  | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
    
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,908) | | Originally Posted by Eudaimonist Even atheists might ask me that question if they associate the word "spirit" closely with conscious beings that are either insubstantial or at least have no physical bodies in this universe. They might think I was borrowing a word that belongs exclusively to religion. I have gotten more flack from atheists in declaring myself spiritual than from any theists.
I believe in the human spirit. And by that I mean basically what Carl Jung meant by the word "psyche".
"By psyche, I understand the totality of all psychic processes, conscious as well as unconscious." -- Carl Jung
So, what is spiritual has to do with our psyches, whatever their source.
eudaimonia,
Mark
what's the source?
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24th June 2010, 01:29 PM
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What kind of wine is he drinking?
Do you have any other board games you play with family or friends?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist Here he is: 
This photo was taken only about two weeks ago at a board game of Arkham Horror. I'll be playing again this weekend when I'll be celebrating Summer Solstice with friends and relatives.
Cthulhu here is chilling with a glass of wine during the game.
It's not easy being Lord of Destruction and eventual destroyer of humanity, so its important to unwind. Iä! Iä!
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