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  #1  
Unread 11th May 2010, 03:17 PM
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Muhammad's Prophecies Unfulfilled

The numbered indented paragraphs are the best prophecies to come out to substantiate muhammad's "prophethood", followed by a counterargument. All come from ahadiths, (muhammad's sayings), none from Koran itself as the Koran contains NO prophetic statements (a fallacy in its own right),(common statements of hell-fire and afterlife here excluded).
1-Prophet Muhammad predicted that the Muslims would open two cities, Istanbul and Rome. His companions asked him which one would be opened first, he replied Istanbul (present city of Contantinople in Turkey). The Muslims opened Istanbul in 1453 A.D. after fighting for 55 days. The leader of the Muslims was Muhammad Al Feteh. This ended the powerful empire of Rome. There were two major sects of Christianity: one is based in Rome and the other in Istanbul.
Wrong. The Roman Empire was split by a Roman Emperor Constantine creating a divide in the christian church, becoming Eastern Orthodox (istanbul) and Catholicism (Rome), 330AD, WELL BEFORE Islam came on the scene. Istanbul was attacked and conquered but Rome (though attacked in 846AD) remained under Christian rule. The Catholic church remains untouched. MUHAMMAD'S WORDS FAILED because Rome itself was not affected. Furthermore, position of the Holy Roman Emperor was established by catholic popes and the title remained in use throughout europe till 1835 AD, 1000 yrs after muhammad.

Furthermore, Sahih muslim used the reference "Ceasar as king of Rome," incorrectly referring actually to the lands of Syria.
Curious, the WORDS OF MUHAMMAD DROVE HIS FOLLOWERS and not really by divine will. For almost 800 years, Contantinople was attacked but muslims failed to conquer it during that whole time.
I am not aware of any Ceasar Dying at the hands of Muslims so that PROPHECY FAILED: Sahih Muslim: "and Ceasar king of rome would die;"
 
2-The Prophet saw 'Ali and Zubair one day laughing together, and he asked Ali if he loved Zubair. Ali replied: "How could I not love him since he is my nephew and co-religionist." The Prophet asked Zubair the same question, who gave a similar response. The Prophet then told Zubair that he would fight 'Ali, and that he would be the oppressor. So in the Battle of Jamal, when Ali and Zubair, in opposing camps came face to face. 'Ali reminded Zubair of the incident, and Zubair recalled, and said that he had forgotten, and he immediately left the battle field. So the battle took place as the Prophet had predicted, and Zubair was the oppressor, since Ali was the Rightful Caliph, and to oppose him with violence was wrong.

Zubair simply followed the wishes of muhammad as muhammad laid them out. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

3-The Prophet said: "The Caliphate will last for thirty years, then there will be a biting kingship." So it happened. The rule of the Rightly Guided caliphs was exactly thirty years: Abu Bakr for two, 'Umar for ten, 'Uthman for twelve, 'Ali for two and a half and Hassan three and a half. After that evil spread and kingship was established

Caliphate and monarchy are essentially the same thing, just a change in the name. All four caliphs were militarily under muhammad's leadership DURING muhammad's lifetime. The four and muhammad, simply came to an accord on who would rule, when and for so many years. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY... but an agreement among men.
4-The Muslims will fight two tribes. The first tribe has face like the hammer (the Mongolians). The second tribe wears furs and has small eyes (the Tartars (Taimur Lung and Genghis Khan). Both predictions occurred when these tribes destroyed the established Islamic state and captured the territories, except for the Arabian peninsula. But after a few years, they accepted Islam. There about 90,000,000 Muslims in China and around 80,000,000 Muslims in the former Republic of Soviet Union.
The reference (faces like hammered shields) is found in Sahih Muslim where muhammad is speaking about the "Last Hour" or doomsday, the end. Obviously, the wars with the Mongols was not what muhammad was referring to; the Last Hour is not yet... FALSE PROPHECY OR NOT PROPHECY. For a real prophecy about the "Last Days", refer to Mathew 24.
 
5-Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said to Caesar and Qisra that after their death there will be no more Caesar and Qisra.And these empires joined the Islamic state. This happened in 638 A.D. (during the period of the second Calipha Omar).

Refer to #1, "Caesars" continued into the 1800's, termed Kaiser in Germany, Czars in Russia. Also considered Holy Roman Emperors. FALSE PROPHECY.

7- The Prophet also predicted the capture of Egypt, and told his companions to treat the people well, and that they would seize the treasures of the Persian Choseros (Emperor), who lives in the white palace, all of which they accomplished, and that Suraqa bin Malik (one of the companions) would have the bracelets of Caesar put on his hands. So it happened that some such bracelets fell into the possession of 'Umar and he called Suraqa, and placed the bracelets on him, reminding him of the Prophet's words.

There were already ties between Arabs and Egyptians during muhammad's lifetime. Egyptians were accepting muhammad's religion while muhammad was still alive. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.
8-The Prophet also predicted the dividing of the Muslims into many sects and mentioned some of their characteristics. The Prophet mentioned that some people would do to 'Ali what the Christians did to Jesus. This clearly refers to the Shi'a, who exaggerate in love and praise of 'Ali. One of the Shi'a sects, the Nusaria, actually worship him as the manifestation of Allah.
Ali and muhammad were cousins; muhammad loved Ali.

Salama bin Al-Akwa: "Ali remained behind the Prophet during the battle of Khaibar as he way suffering from some eye trouble but then he said, "How should I stay behind Allah's Apostle?" (muhammad knew Ali was behind) So, he set out till he joined the Prophet. On the eve of the day of the conquest of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle said, "(No doubt) I will give the flag or, tomorrow, a man whom Allah and His Apostle love or who loves Allah and His apostle will take the flag. Allah will bestow victory upon him." Suddenly 'Ali joined us though we were not expecting him. The people said, "Here is 'Ali. "So, Allah's Apostle gave the flag to him and Allah bestowed victory upon him. (Book #52, Hadith #219)

The people loved Ali because muhammad loved Ali. To say the people would love Ali after muhammad was gone is only restating the obvious. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

9- The Prophet also mentioned that a group would arise who will deny Allah's Qadr (Divine Decree) and he called them the "Magians of the Ummah", and so it happened, and they were called the Qadaria.

Bukhari reports muhammad not liking the Magians. It was already well known they were not sincere muslims. To say they would deny Qadr (destiny) is repetitive. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

10- He also mentioned the appearance of those who would claim the Qur'an is created, and of those who would tell people to take only from the Qur'an and ignore the Sunnah (Prophetic Tradition), and these things have all come to pass.

This was true when muhammad was alive. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

11- The Prophet also predicted that from the tribe of a certain individual a group would arise who would used the verses of Qur'an pertaining to unbelievers on the believers, and that they should be fought and killed. So it happened that the first of the deviant sects to arise was the Khawarij, who said that 'Ali and Muwawia were unbelievers, and whoever did not believe this, then they also were unbelievers, and they would slaughter the Muslims, and they arose from the tribe of Tamim, as the Prophet had said.

muhammad also showed disfavor towards tribe of Tamim (according to Bakra). Revolts were commonplace in muhammad's lifetime. To say a tribe would come later and revolt is not prophetic. Of course they would use the koran against each other. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

12-Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) predicted that a time will come when people will have open sex in the streets and other public places. We see this in the theater, university campuses, etc.

Orgies, pedophilia, homosexuality were commonplace before muhammad's lifetime. It was common among the pagan shrines of Rome when Jesus walked the earth. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

13- Before his death, the Messenger called his daughter Fatima to his bedside and informed her that she would be the first among his family to join him after his death. Fatima joined her father, the pride of mankind, six months later.

Narrated 'Aisha: "The Prophet called his daughter fatima during his illness in which he died, and told her a secret whereupon she wept. Then he called her again and told her a secret whereupon she laughed. When I asked her about that, she replied, "The Prophet spoke to me in secret and informed me that he would die in the course of the illness during which he died, so I wept. He again spoke to me in secret and informed me that I would be the first of his family to follow him (after his death) and on that I laughed."

1)"To follow him" may not mean her death. 2) Perhaps he gave her words to comfort her so that her "weeping" turned to "laughter". In either case, I do not see this as prophecy.
 
 
14-As related by Hakim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Maja, by repeatedly declaring, You should, after my death, follow the way of Abu Bakr and Umar,8 the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, meant that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar would succeed him as caliphs. He also predicted that Abu Bakr’s reign would be short, whereas ‘Umar would remain longer to be able to make many conquests.
Ha, Ha, Ha.... so muhammad merely names his successors. The four caliphs and muhammad had made an agreement. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

Last edited by Under Grace; 12th May 2010 at 05:16 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 11th May 2010, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Under Grace View Post
The numbered indented paragraphs are the best prophecies to come out to substantiate muhammad's "prophethood", followed by a counterargument. All come from ahadiths, (muhammad's sayings), none from Koran itself as the Koran contains no prophetic statements (common statements of hell-fire and afterlife here excluded).
1-Prophet Muhammad predicted that the Muslims would open two cities, Istanbul and Rome. His companions asked him which one would be opened first, he replied Istanbul (present city of Contantinople in Turkey). The Muslims opened Istanbul in 1453 A.D. after fighting for 55 days. The leader of the Muslims was Muhammad Al Feteh. This ended the powerful empire of Rome. There were two major sects of Christianity: one is based in Rome and the other in Istanbul.
Wrong. The Roman Empire was split by a Roman Emperor Constantine creating a divide in the christian church, becoming Eastern Orthodox (istanbul) and Catholicism (Rome), 330AD, WELL BEFORE Islam came on the scene. Istanbul was attacked and conquered but Rome (though attacked in 846AD) remained under Christian rule. The Catholic church remains untouched. MUHAMMAD'S WORDS FAILED because Rome itself was not affected. Furthermore, position of the Holy Roman Emperor was established by catholic popes and the title remained in use throughout europe till 1835 AD, 1000 yrs after muhammad.

Furthermore, Sahih muslim used the reference "Ceasar as king of Rome," incorrectly referring actually to the lands of Syria. Curious, the WORDS OF MUHAMMAD DROVE HIS FOLLOWERS and not so much by divine will. For almost 800 years, Contantinople was attacked but muslims failed to conquer it during that whole time. I am not aware of any Ceasar Dying at the hands of Muslims so that PROPHECY FAILED:
Sahih Muslim: "and Ceasar king of rome would die;"
 
2-The Prophet saw 'Ali and Zubair one day laughing together, and he asked Ali if he loved Zubair. Ali replied: "How could I not love him since he is my nephew and co-religionist." The Prophet asked Zubair the same question, who gave a similar response. The Prophet then told Zubair that he would fight 'Ali, and that he would be the oppressor. So in the Battle of Jamal, when Ali and Zubair, in opposing camps came face to face. 'Ali reminded Zubair of the incident, and Zubair recalled, and said that he had forgotten, and he immediately left the battle field. So the battle took place as the Prophet had predicted, and Zubair was the oppressor, since Ali was the Rightful Caliph, and to oppose him with violence was wrong.

Zubair simply followed the wishes of muhammad as muhammad laid them out. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

3-The Prophet said: "The Caliphate will last for thirty years, then there will be a biting kingship." So it happened. The rule of the Rightly Guided caliphs was exactly thirty years: Abu Bakr for two, 'Umar for ten, 'Uthman for twelve, 'Ali for two and a half and Hassan three and a half. After that evil spread and kingship was established

Caliphate and monarchy are essentially the same thing, just a change in the name. All four caliphs were militarily under the leadership of muhammad DURING muhammad's lifetime. The four and muhammad, simply came to an accord on who would rule, when and for so many years. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY... but an agreement among men.
4-The Muslims will fight two tribes. The first tribe has face like the hammer (the Mongolians). The second tribe wears furs and has small eyes (the Tartars (Taimur Lung and Genghis Khan). Both predictions occurred when these tribes destroyed the established Islamic state and captured the territories, except for the Arabian peninsula. But after a few years, they accepted Islam. There about 90,000,000 Muslims in China and around 80,000,000 Muslims in the former Republic of Soviet Union.
The reference (faces like hammered shields) is found in Sahih Muslim where muhammad is speaking about the "Last Hour" or doomsday, the end. Obviously, the wars with the Mongols was not what muhammad was referring to, the Last Hour is not yet. FALSE PROPHECY OR NOT PROPHECY. For a real prophecy about the "Last Days", refer to Mathew 24.
 
5-Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said to Caesar and Qisra that after their death there will be no more Caesar and Qisra.And these empires joined the Islamic state. This happened in 638 A.D. (during the period of the second Calipha Omar).

Refer to #1, "Caesars" continued into the 1800's, termed Kaiser in Germany, Czars in Russia. Also considered Holy Roman Emperors. FALSE PROPHECY.

7- The Prophet also predicted the capture of Egypt, and told his companions to treat the people well, and that they would seize the treasures of the Persian Choseros (Emperor), who lives in the white palace, all of which they accomplished, and that Suraqa bin Malik (one of the companions) would have the bracelets of Caesar put on his hands. So it happened that some such bracelets fell into the possession of 'Umar and he called Suraqa, and placed the bracelets on him, reminding him of the Prophet's words.

There were already ties between arabs and egyptians during muhammad's lifetime. Egyptians were accepting muhammad's religion while Muhammad was still alive. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.
8-The Prophet also predicted the dividing of the Muslims into many sects and mentioned some of their characteristics. The Prophet mentioned that some people would do to 'Ali what the Christians did to Jesus. This clearly refers to the Shi'a, who exaggerate in love and praise of 'Ali. One of the Shi'a sects, the Nusaria, actually worship him as the manifestation of Allah.
Ali and muhammad, cousins; muhammad loved him.

Salama bin Al-Akwa: "Ali remained behind the Prophet during the battle of Khaibar as he way suffering from some eye trouble but then he said, "How should I stay behind Allah's Apostle?" (muhammad knew Ali was behind) So, he set out till he joined the Prophet. On the eve of the day of the conquest of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle said, "(No doubt) I will give the flag or, tomorrow, a man whom Allah and His Apostle love or who loves Allah and His apostle will take the flag. Allah will bestow victory upon him." Suddenly 'Ali joined us though we were not expecting him. The people said, "Here is 'Ali. "So, Allah's Apostle gave the flag to him and Allah bestowed victory upon him. (Book #52, Hadith #219)

The people loved Ali because muhammad loved Ali. To say the people would love Ali after muhammad was gone is only restating the obvious. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

9- The Prophet also mentioned that a group would arise who will deny Allah's Qadr (Divine Decree) and he called them the "Magians of the Ummah", and so it happened, and they were called the Qadaria.

Bukhari reports muh not liking the magians. It was already well known they were not sincere muslims. To say they would deny Qadr (destiny) is repetitive. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

10- He also mentioned the appearance of those who would claim the Qur'an is created, and of those who would tell people to take only from the Qur'an and ignore the Sunnah (Prophetic Tradition), and these things have all come to pass.

This was true when muhammad was alive. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

11- The Prophet also predicted that from the tribe of a certain individual a group would arise who would used the verses of Qur'an pertaining to unbelievers on the believers, and that they should be fought and killed. So it happened that the first of the deviant sects to arise was the Khawarij, who said that 'Ali and Muwawia were unbelievers, and whoever did not believe this, then they also were unbelievers, and they would slaughter the Muslims, and they arose from the tribe of Tamim, as the Prophet had said.

muhammad also showed disfavor towards tribe of tamim (Bakra). Revolts were commonplace in muhammad's lifetime. To say a tribe would come later and revolt is not prophetic. Of course they would use the koran against each other. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

12-Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) predicted that a time will come when people will have open sex in the streets and other public places. We see this in the theater, university campuses, etc.

Orgies, pedophilia, homosexuality were commonplace before muhammad's lifetime. It was common among the pagan shrines of Rome when Jesus walked the earth. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

13- Before his death, the Messenger called his daughter Fatima to his bedside and informed her that she would be the first among his family to join him after his death. Fatima joined her father, the pride of mankind, six months later.

Narrated 'Aisha: "The Prophet called his daughter fatima during his illness in which he died, and told her a secret whereupon she wept. Then he called her again and told her a secret whereupon she laughed. When I asked her about that, she replied, "The Prophet spoke to me in secret and informed me that he would die in the course of the illness during which he died, so I wept. He again spoke to me in secret and informed me that I would be the first of his family to follow him (after his death) and on that I laughed."

1)"To follow him" may not mean her death. 2) Perhaps he gave her words to comfort her. In either case, I do not see this as prophecy.
 
 
14-As related by Hakim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Maja, by repeatedly declaring, You should, after my death, follow the way of Abu Bakr and Umar,8 the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, meant that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar would succeed him as caliphs. He also predicted that Abu Bakr’s reign would be short, whereas ‘Umar would remain longer to be able to make many conquests.
Ha, Ha, Ha.... so muhammad merely names his successors. The four caliphs and muhammad had made an agreement. THIS IS NOT PROPHECY.

hahaha are you kidding me? Have you even read what you are copying and pasting?

You do realize you have made so many mistakes that its just funny to read.

And what is with the ha, ha ,ha? Have you ever read your bible my ignorant friend? You do realize there are tons of unfulfiled prophesies right?

Dont even get me started on those mistakes, we would have a field day here. Dont throw stones when your in a glass house my friend.

Last edited by Forealzchola; 18th May 2010 at 07:54 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 11th May 2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by alhamdullilah View Post
hahaha are you kidding me? Have you even read what you are copying and pasting?

You do realize you have made so many mistakes that its just funny to read.
I am waiting for you to show even one. (I am still waiting for your counterarguments in the other threads).

Every stupid and ignorant comment you places in the OP is easy to destroy like I did in all of your topics.
You never gave counterarguments in the other threads.
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Unread 14th May 2010, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Under Grace View Post
I am waiting for you to show even one. (I am still waiting for your counterarguments in the other threads).

You never gave counterarguments in the other threads.
Can you please give exact references to those prophecies that you posted? From which hadith? From which chapter?
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Unread 14th May 2010, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by benmaarof View Post
Can you please give exact references to those prophecies that you posted? From which hadith? From which chapter?
those prophecies are exist , it was me who posted it in another threads .

but what is most important is the way he refuted them , the refutation was very funny to read
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