Can we philosophically “prove” that God must be good?

bling · #1 11th May 2010, 04:02 PM

Can we philosophically “prove” that God must be good?

If God is good would he have to be the absolute best?

Would humans have to be made to recognize what/who is the best God?

Who best describes a wonderful and perfectly Loving God? (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, J.W., Hindu or other)

Would no God be better than the Christian God?

hamashiachagape · #2 11th May 2010, 08:09 PM

Very good questions and I used to have some of the same.

Originally Posted by bling

Can we philosophically “prove” that God must be good?

Look at the fact that humans have free will. An evil God would put us under a tyrannical rule because he wouldn't have given humans the opportunity to love. Being that he is a loving God, he gives us the ability to love him via a free will. We can choose to love God, or not love God.

Also the natural order of things demonstrates that God intervenes. The fact that God has instilled absolute principles within humans demonstrates a care for his creation. The fact that we know instinctively when something is wrong is a good indicator that God cares about whether we do something right or wrong. These are all attributes of a good God.

If God is good would he have to be the absolute best?

He is the absolute best for different reasons.

Would humans have to be made to recognize what/who is the best God?

Logic demonstrates this, but not all humans are open to reviewing things logically because they have emotional attachments to their own agendas instead of looking at God's agenda.

Who best describes a wonderful and perfectly Loving God? (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, J.W., Hindu or other)

Something between Jewish and Christian. Thats why I'm where I am at.

The Old Testament God is the same one as the New Testament God. There are only 7 things that God gets angry with. We know Yeshua got angry during certain instances as well (see the pharisees in the temple). But all in all, we see a gentle God even in the Old Testament (I don't think I need to say much for Yeshua, most everyone agrees he was a good moral teacher if nothing else). God says many times in the Old Testament that your people shall be my people, how he finds favor in certain attitudes and what not. The loving attitude of God is still demonstrated towards those who love him back and follow him.

Would no God be better than the Christian God?

The argument I love most against Atheism is this. If Atheism is true, then all Atheists have absolute knowledge and can know everything (we know that this isn't true because of disagreement so this hinders Atheism, but for the sake of argument..). If Atheists can know everything, then they are just as knowledgeable as what we define to be God. This makes Atheists God. Therefore God is an Atheist. YIKES! shoddy logic.

beforHim · #3 11th May 2010, 11:33 PM

Good questions!

Originally Posted by bling

Can we philosophically “prove” that God must be good?

Yes. If philosophy is the study if all data, then taking into account logic and reason, human experience and actions, scientific knowledge, mathematical knowledge, metaphysics, etc. etc. etc. we can pretty much prove that the concept "God" is one that includes "goodness".

If God is good would he have to be the absolute best?

The concept "God" includes no limits, so yes, he wouldn't have to just be good but good without limits. Hence, I wouldn't call it "the absolute good" as this implies He's the best just because He's better than al others; no, I would instead say that He is THE standard for goodness, hence goodness itself.

Would humans have to be made to recognize what/who is the best God?

Either you worded your question all wrong or else I'm not getting it. It sounds like you're asking "must we exist in order to know something, namely the goodness of God?". Obviously, the answer is yes, we have to exist to do anything.

Who best describes a wonderful and perfectly Loving God? (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, J.W., Hindu or other)

Hindus and other pantheistic relkigions don't have a "lovbing" God, their God is impersonal to a tee. No love, no hate, nothing.

Muslims- their God goes on a deeds basis, if your god deeds outweigh your bad deeds, God loves you. If not, God doesn't love you.

JWs, Mormons, Moonies, etc. think they have the same God we do: but they understand Him a little too differently for them to be called Christian. Hence, they keep the concept of Him being "all loving", but they all have "requirements" in order to get to heaven (or the highest heaven), where our God simply looks at our heart and judges us by it.

Jews and Christians- God loves us DESPITE our bad deeds, and has proven it via His relationship with Israel and the cross.

Would no God be better than the Christian God?

Heavens no! Why would you think so? No God = No Existence!

Must we have a God for us to exist? Well, maybe not a God, but at least a necessary being who can create stuff without prior stuff existing. But if that's what we call "God", if that's the "God" concept, then we're limiting it big time, and hence it's really no God at all.

stever the believer · #4 13th May 2010, 03:55 PM

If you are trying to determine if God is good philosophically, what are you using as your standard of goodness since beforHim already pointed out that God is THE standard of goodness?

hamashiachagape · #5 13th May 2010, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by stever the believer

If you are trying to determine if God is good philosophically, what are you using as your standard of goodness since beforHim already pointed out that God is THE standard of goodness?

I think my post is relevant to your information, tho I'm trying to take it a step forward into "HOW" God is good. Nice post

.

True_Blue · #6 13th May 2010, 09:36 PM

Yes, we can prove that God is good.

A law is a command by higher power that is binding upon a lower power. A government can make laws that are binding upon us because governments have power over us through the military and the police. When we say that God is "good," we are saying that God is moral. "Morality" is the set of God's laws that apply to humans. Morality binds us like a law because God has power over us. God's status as an all-powerful being means essentially that everything God does is automatically moral, and automatically good.

What you're really asking is whether we can prove God loves us. It's hard for us to believe that God really loves us when he is separate from us, and when bad things happen in the world, and when we feel guilty about our behavior. The reason these things happen is because God wants us to love him. Part of the essence of what it means to love is to be given the freedom to love. For us to love God, God had to give us the free choice to love him. Part of the freedom to chose means the freedom to face the adverse consequence of an incorrect choice that is inconsistent with choosing to love God. The separation from God and the bad things that happen in the world have happened because we have choosen to disobey him and not love him. But our incorrect choices mean that God's choice to love is that much more loving and that much more powerful. Christ's death on the cross, despite the hatred that people had for him, is God's supreme act of love for us. God chose to die for us. He chose to love us.

drich0150 · #7 13th May 2010, 09:42 PM

Can we philosophically “prove” that God must be good?

Yes we can but at the same time we can prove Him to be bad as well. That is the problem with a personal philosophy Without a absolute standard. When standards are absent, all things are philosophically possible. If we use a absolute standard as it is given in the bible then we have no choice but to see God as good. If you use popular culture as your standard, then your answer will vary according to you personal point of view, your location, and what you think good is.

If God is good would he have to be the absolute best?

Again it depends on how you intend to Judge God.

Would humans have to be made to recognize what/who is the best God?

Apparently not in this life, otherwise you wouldn't need to even ask this question.

Who best describes a wonderful and perfectly Loving God? (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, J.W., Hindu or other)

I would think God gives a better description than any of man's efforts represented by any of these religions.

Would no God be better than the Christian God?

Again, That would depend on your PPOV and what you want out of this life and/or the next.

Johnnz · #8 13th May 2010, 09:51 PM

Much about God we cannot prove because our intellectual capacities are finite. But then I cannot prove to another my inner feelings or thoughts for example. We can have confidence in what we believe about God. Faith is not irrational.

Plus, positivism, has long been seen to be an inadequate criterion for belief. It leaves out far too much of daily reality.

John
NZ

bling · #9 18th May 2010, 06:31 PM

Thank you for these answers.

ranunculus · #10 19th May 2010, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by hamashiachagape

The argument I love most against Atheism is this. If Atheism is true, then all Atheists have absolute knowledge and can know everything (we know that this isn't true because of disagreement so this hinders Atheism, but for the sake of argument..). If Atheists can know everything, then they are just as knowledgeable as what we define to be God. This makes Atheists God. Therefore God is an Atheist. YIKES! shoddy logic.

This argument would be valid if atheists indeed claimed absolute knowlegde. I know for a fact they don't. What you are arguing against here is people who claim to know something that is unkownable.