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Unread 9th May 2010, 04:46 PM
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Christ died on April 3, A.D. 33

More on the eclipse & darkness during the Crucifixion;The following is terrific evidence for the truthfulness of the gospels about Jesus and His crucifixion.

The 3rd-century Christian historian Sextus Julius Africanus, in a section of his work surviving in quotation by George Syncellus, stated that the chronicler Thallus had called the darkness during the crucifixion a solar eclipse. Africanus objected based on the fact that a solar eclipse could not occur during Passover; the earth was between the sun and the moon during that holiday. It is unclear whether Thallus himself made any reference to the crucifixion.

The church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (264 – 340), in his Chronicle, cited a statement of the 2nd-century chronicler Phlegon of Tralles that during the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (AD 32/33) "a great eclipse of the sun occurred at the sixth hour that excelled every other before it, turning the day into such darkness of night that the stars could be seen in heaven, and the earth moved in Bithynia, toppling many buildings in the city of Nicaea.” In the same passage, Eusebius cited another unnamed Greek source also recording earthquakes in the same locations and an eclipse. Eusebius argued the two records had documented events that were simultaneous with the crucifixion of Jesus. Ambraseys verified the reality of the earthquake that had rocked Nicaea and other cities throughout Bythenia.


That it was a lunar eclipse and not a solar one on April 3, A.D. 33 is pretty well established. The moon was in such a position to be seen on the evening of that day as verified by astronomical calculation.



Tertullian, in his Apologeticus, tells the story of the darkness that had commenced at noon during the crucifixion; those who were unaware of the prediction, he says, "no doubt thought it an eclipse". He suggests that the evidence is still available: "You yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives."
The early historian and theologian, Rufinus of Aquileia (between 340 and 345 – 410), in his expanded work of Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, includes a part of the defense given to Maximinus by Lucian of Antioch, shortly before he suffered martyrdom in A.D. 312. Lucian, like Tertullian, was also convinced that an account of the darkness that accompanied the crucifixion could be found among Roman records. Ussher recorded Lucian's corresponding statement given to Maximinus as, “Search your writings and you shall find that, in Pilate’s time, when Christ suffered, the sun was suddenly withdrawn and a darkness followed.”
The next prominent Christian historian after Eusebius, Paulus Orosius (A.D. 375 – 418), wrote circa A.D. 417 that Jesus "voluntarily gave himself over to the Passion but through the impiety of the Jews, was apprehended and nailed to the cross, as a very great earthquake took place throughout the world, rocks upon mountains were split, and a great many parts of the largest cities fell by this extraordinary violence. On the same day also, at the sixth hour of the day, the Sun was entirely obscured and a loathsome night suddenly overshadowed the land, as it was said, ‘an impious age feared eternal night.’ Moreover, it was quite clear that neither the Moon nor the clouds stood in the way of the light of the Sun, so that it is reported that on that day the Moon, being fourteen days old, with the entire region of the heavens thrown in between, was farthest from the sight of the Sun, and the stars throughout the entire sky shone, then in the hours of the day or rather in that terrible night. To this, not only the authority of the Holy Gospels attest, but even some books of the Greeks."


But there is even more;


“Astronomical determinations of the date of the crucifixion have been derived from calculating the dates when the crescent of the new moon would be first visible from Jerusalem, which was used by the Jews to mark the first day of a lunar month, for example Nisan 1. Popular estimates have been April 7, 30 AD, April 3, 33 AD, and April 23, 34 AD.


Extra-biblical records have been incorporated with the determinations of the year of the crucifixion. Eusebius connected the solar darkening with the 18th year of Tiberius’ reign and the earthquakes to the year of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Since Tiberius (42 BC – 37 AD) ascended the throne in 14 AD, the 18th year of his reign would have occurred in 32 AD, or, using Jewish ecclesiastical reckoning, between Spring of 32 and Spring of 33. Also, the darkening recorded by Phlegon yielded 32 or 33 AD. The fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad ran from summer of 32 to summer of 33 AD because the first Olympiad occurred in 776 BC.


And narrowing it down even further;


“Humphreys and Waddington of Oxford University reconstructed the Jewish calendar in the first century AD and arrived at the conclusion that Friday April 3 33AD was the date of the Crucifixion. Humphreys and Waddington went further and also reconstructed the scenario for a lunar eclipse on that day. They concluded that:

"This eclipse was visible from Jerusalem at moonrise. The start of the eclipse was invisible from Jerusalem, being below the horizon. The eclipse began at 3:40pm and reached a maximum at 5:15pm, with 60% of the moon eclipsed. This was also below the horizon from Jerusalem. The moon rose above the horizon, and was first visible from Jerusalem at about 6:20pm (the start of the Jewish Sabbath and also the start of Passover day in A.D. 33) with about 20% of its disc in the umbra of the earth's shadow and the remainder in the penumbra. The eclipse finished some thirty minutes later at 6:50pm."



(Not copyrighted: This page is intended for those who wish to reuse material (text and/or graphics) from the Wikimedia projects — on their own website, in print, or otherwise. It focuses on Commons as this is explicitly a collection of reusable media.


“Moreover, their calculations showed that the 20% visible of the moon was positioned close to the top (i.e. leading edge) of the moon. The failure of any of the gospel accounts to refer to a lunar eclipse is, they assume, the result of a scribe wrongly amending a text to refer to a solar eclipse.”


This is absolutely fascinating in light of what Joel the prophet had said 8 centuries earlier. Peter later affirmed what he said about the matter. But the apostles only said that darkness came upon the earth, not that a solar eclipse caused it. As always the matter has been debated but some pretty solid conclusions have been made about the matter.


In Acts 2:20, the Apostle Peter refers to a "moon of blood" in the context of a prophecy from Joel. A "moon of blood" is a term also commonly used for a lunar eclipse because of the reddish color of the light refracted onto the moon through the Earth's atmosphere. Commentators are divided upon the exact nature of this statement by Saint Peter. The investigation by Humphreys and Waddington concluded that the moon turned to blood statement probably refers to a lunar eclipse, and they showed that this interpretation is self consistent and seems to confirm their conclusion that the crucifixion occurred on April 3, 33.
Using his approach to computing "celestial glare", Bradley Schaefer opposed the views of Humphreys and Waddington with respect to the visibility of the lunar eclipse, since his computations of celestial glare would not allow a visible lunar eclipse during the Crucifixion. Ruggles also supported Schaefer's views.However, using different computational mechanisms, based on the approach originally used by Isaac Newton, John Pratt, later Bradley Schaefer separately arrived at the same date for the Crucifixion as Humphreys and Waddington did based on the lunar eclipse approach, namely Friday, April 3 33 AD.” All my references are from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_darkness_and_eclipse


Very exciting reading for those who believe in Jesus.
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Unread 11th May 2010, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Calypsis4 View Post
More on the eclipse & darkness during the Crucifixion;The following is terrific evidence for the truthfulness of the gospels about Jesus and His crucifixion.

The 3rd-century Christian historian Sextus Julius Africanus, in a section of his work surviving in quotation by George Syncellus, stated that the chronicler Thallus had called the darkness during the crucifixion a solar eclipse. Africanus objected based on the fact that a solar eclipse could not occur during Passover; the earth was between the sun and the moon during that holiday. It is unclear whether Thallus himself made any reference to the crucifixion.

The church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (264 – 340), in his Chronicle, cited a statement of the 2nd-century chronicler Phlegon of Tralles that during the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (AD 32/33) "a great eclipse of the sun occurred at the sixth hour that excelled every other before it, turning the day into such darkness of night that the stars could be seen in heaven, and the earth moved in Bithynia, toppling many buildings in the city of Nicaea.” In the same passage, Eusebius cited another unnamed Greek source also recording earthquakes in the same locations and an eclipse. Eusebius argued the two records had documented events that were simultaneous with the crucifixion of Jesus. Ambraseys verified the reality of the earthquake that had rocked Nicaea and other cities throughout Bythenia.


That it was a lunar eclipse and not a solar one on April 3, A.D. 33 is pretty well established. The moon was in such a position to be seen on the evening of that day as verified by astronomical calculation.

But there is even more;


“Astronomical determinations of the date of the crucifixion have been derived from calculating the dates when the crescent of the new moon would be first visible from Jerusalem, which was used by the Jews to mark the first day of a lunar month, for example Nisan 1. Popular estimates have been April 7, 30 AD, April 3, 33 AD, and April 23, 34 AD.


Extra-biblical records have been incorporated with the determinations of the year of the crucifixion. Eusebius connected the solar darkening with the 18th year of Tiberius’ reign and the earthquakes to the year of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Since Tiberius (42 BC – 37 AD) ascended the throne in 14 AD, the 18th year of his reign would have occurred in 32 AD, or, using Jewish ecclesiastical reckoning, between Spring of 32 and Spring of 33. Also, the darkening recorded by Phlegon yielded 32 or 33 AD. The fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad ran from summer of 32 to summer of 33 AD because the first Olympiad occurred in 776 BC.


And narrowing it down even further;


“Humphreys and Waddington of Oxford University reconstructed the Jewish calendar in the first century AD and arrived at the conclusion that Friday April 3 33AD was the date of the Crucifixion. Humphreys and Waddington went further and also reconstructed the scenario for a lunar eclipse on that day. They concluded that:

"This eclipse was visible from Jerusalem at moonrise. The start of the eclipse was invisible from Jerusalem, being below the horizon. The eclipse began at 3:40pm and reached a maximum at 5:15pm, with 60% of the moon eclipsed. This was also below the horizon from Jerusalem. The moon rose above the horizon, and was first visible from Jerusalem at about 6:20pm (the start of the Jewish Sabbath and also the start of Passover day in A.D. 33) with about 20% of its disc in the umbra of the earth's shadow and the remainder in the penumbra. The eclipse finished some thirty minutes later at 6:50pm."




(Not copyrighted: This page is intended for those who wish to reuse material (text and/or graphics) from the Wikimedia projects — on their own website, in print, or otherwise. It focuses on Commons as this is explicitly a collection of reusable media.


“Moreover, their calculations showed that the 20% visible of the moon was positioned close to the top (i.e. leading edge) of the moon. The failure of any of the gospel accounts to refer to a lunar eclipse is, they assume, the result of a scribe wrongly amending a text to refer to a solar eclipse.”


This is absolutely fascinating in light of what Joel the prophet had said 8 centuries earlier. Peter later affirmed what he said about the matter. But the apostles only said that darkness came upon the earth, not that a solar eclipse caused it. As always the matter has been debated but some pretty solid conclusions have been made about the matter.


In Acts 2:20, the Apostle Peter refers to a "moon of blood" in the context of a prophecy from Joel. A "moon of blood" is a term also commonly used for a lunar eclipse because of the reddish color of the light refracted onto the moon through the Earth's atmosphere. Commentators are divided upon the exact nature of this statement by Saint Peter. The investigation by Humphreys and Waddington concluded that the moon turned to blood statement probably refers to a lunar eclipse, and they showed that this interpretation is self consistent and seems to confirm their conclusion that the crucifixion occurred on April 3, 33.
Using his approach to computing "celestial glare", Bradley Schaefer opposed the views of Humphreys and Waddington with respect to the visibility of the lunar eclipse, since his computations of celestial glare would not allow a visible lunar eclipse during the Crucifixion. Ruggles also supported Schaefer's views.However, using different computational mechanisms, based on the approach originally used by Isaac Newton, John Pratt, later Bradley Schaefer separately arrived at the same date for the Crucifixion as Humphreys and Waddington did based on the lunar eclipse approach, namely Friday, April 3 33 AD.” All my references are from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_darkness_and_eclipse


Very exciting reading for those who believe in Jesus.
A serious reading of Flavius Josephus would dictate this lunar eclipse as irrelevant. I do not think it safe to take traditionalistic material at face value. I also have mentioned before there is a problem with stating that this occurred on "Good Friday". That day is actually the Day of the Saints, which stems from a paganistic holiday.

Also it is well documented that Yeshua died Nisan 14th by the Jews. Good article on some important material here - http://www.therefinersfire.org/resurrection1.htm. These were Jews recording the events, and it makes more sense when we look at it through the eyes of Jews.

Disclaimer: This article states that Yeshua died on a stake. If we read Acts, it demonstrates that Yeshua was crucified on a tree. Further, Josephus records that Jews were crucified on trees for 3 miles. Remember guys, 3 men crucified on crosses is never mentioned in scripture. Think about this also, the theives were able to communicate with one another. If we want to see how this could not happen with a vast distance apart from one another, crucifixion killed people by asphixiation. So, choke yourselves and try to talk really loudly. There were three crucified on one tree. Also, those who have visited Israel may appreciate this, I know my synagogue has been there 5 times. My rabbi has concluded that Golgotha is a cemetery that has been there for over 2000 years. There was no space to crucify anyone.
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Originally Posted by hamashiachagape View Post
A serious reading of Flavius Josephus would dictate this lunar eclipse as irrelevant. I do not think it safe to take traditionalistic material at face value. I also have mentioned before there is a problem with stating that this occurred on "Good Friday". That day is actually the Day of the Saints, which stems from a paganistic holiday.
You just took excellent historical evidence and brushed it aside as if it doesn't count at all no matter how much or how credible. What you are missing is that what the prophets said is what the disciples recorded, and what the historians of that day confirmed. How how can a historical fact be any stronger?

Also it is well documented that Yeshua died Nisan 14th by the Jews. Good article on some important material here - Correcting the Sunday myth!. These were Jews recording the events, and it makes more sense when we look at it through the eyes of Jews.
Nisan the 14th and April 3, A.D. 33 were the same day that yr. There is no pagan connection. The fact that pagan 'holiday's' fall on the same dates as the occurrences mentioned in scripture is of little important and little consequence to Christian beliefs. Those so-called holy days of the pagans were mere anticipation by Satan who put the importance of those days into their minds. He also wishes to be 'God' and He wishes to usurp everything that God Almighty does.

Disclaimer: This article states that Yeshua died on a stake.
A non-issue. An upright stake...yes, with cross members which was the Roman way of crucifying people in that era of time.

If we read Acts, it demonstrates that Yeshua was crucified on a tree. Further, Josephus records that Jews were crucified on trees for 3 miles. Remember guys, 3 men crucified on crosses is never mentioned in scripture.

You don't know the scriptures.

Luke 23:32 ¶ And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.



Think about this also, the theives were able to communicate with one another. If we want to see how this could not happen with a vast distance apart from one another, crucifixion killed people by asphixiation. So, choke yourselves and try to talk really loudly. There were three crucified on one tree. Also, those who have visited Israel may appreciate this, I know my synagogue has been there 5 times. My rabbi has concluded that Golgotha is a cemetery that has been there for over 2000 years. There was no space to crucify anyone.
Your rabbi is wrong. I've been there and I've seen Golgotha. The New Testament written by Christs disciples was correct for they were led by the Holy Spirit to bring forth the truth of the gospel and that Jesus Christ was the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of the World.
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Unread 11th May 2010, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Calypsis4 View Post



Nisan the 14th and April 3, A.D. 33 were the same day that yr.
What source do you use for this?
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Unread 11th May 2010, 10:41 PM
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FWIW-



Eclipses

A solar eclipse occurs when Moon's shadow falls on Earth. Hence it must be directly between Sun and Earth. New Moon! No other phase can produce a solar eclipse. We can never see a solar eclipse during Easter or Passover because these holidays fall near the full moon. They can not occur on the new moon like Christmas and other fixed solar dates. Any darkening during the crucifixion was not a naturally occurring solar eclipse.
What about a lunar eclipse? Earth's shadow can strike the moon only when it's full. If the instant of the full moon were late Saturday night just after the spring equinox, a lunar eclipse could last past midnight. We could have a lunar eclipse in the wee hours of Easter Sunday morning. But a solar eclipse on Easter, Good Friday, or Passover is not possible.



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Originally Posted by Standing Up View Post
FWIW-


Eclipses

A solar eclipse occurs when Moon's shadow falls on Earth. Hence it must be directly between Sun and Earth. New Moon! No other phase can produce a solar eclipse. We can never see a solar eclipse during Easter or Passover because these holidays fall near the full moon. They can not occur on the new moon like Christmas and other fixed solar dates. Any darkening during the crucifixion was not a naturally occurring solar eclipse.
What about a lunar eclipse? Earth's shadow can strike the moon only when it's full. If the instant of the full moon were late Saturday night just after the spring equinox, a lunar eclipse could last past midnight. We could have a lunar eclipse in the wee hours of Easter Sunday morning. But a solar eclipse on Easter, Good Friday, or Passover is not possible.



You need to read the OP again, friend. I did not say the darkness was caused by a solar eclipse. I clearly stated more than once it was a lunar eclipse...a partial lunar eclipse. This was verified by NASA and it was specified by Waddington and Humphrey's from Oxford down to the minute it began and later concluded on the evening of April 3, A.D. 33.

It is so hard just to get the posters to just read the facts.

Nonetheless, I wish you well.
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Saul is converted, becoming Paul.

Gal. 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Gal 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with [me] also.

Is that 17 years? Or is he counting converstion out 3 years and then conversion out 14 years?

Was the council in Jerusalem 49ad? If so and counting the 17 years, that puts Paul's conversion back in 32ad. Prior to the OP's 4/3/33 date. So something wrong somewhere.

What happened in 30ad? What were the times? Any lunar eclipses?
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Unread 11th May 2010, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Calypsis4 View Post
You need to read the OP again, friend. I did not say the darkness was caused by a solar eclipse. I clearly stated more than once it was a lunar eclipse...a partial lunar eclipse. This was verified by NASA and it was specified by Waddington and Humphrey's from Oxford down to the minute it began and later concluded on the evening of April 3, A.D. 33.

It is so hard just to get the posters to just read the facts.

Nonetheless, I wish you well.
Reading the facts, dude, my post agrees with you. Solar eclipses are impossible at full moons. "Never see a solar eclipse at Passover." It had to be a lunar eclipse.
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Unread 12th May 2010, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Standing Up View Post
Reading the facts, dude, my post agrees with you. Solar eclipses are impossible at full moons. "Never see a solar eclipse at Passover." It had to be a lunar eclipse.
O.K. have a nice day.
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