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  #1  
Unread 12th April 2010, 02:52 PM
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Jim Marion-Nondual Consciousness

Just wondered if anybody agreed with the premise that comes from nondual consciousness that we can reach Christ like status here on earth [the kingdom of heaven is within]. Jim Marion argues this point in his book entitled "Putting on the mind of Christ" in as much as Jesus was one with the father and that through his example we can finally end the concensus of duality and reach a higher state by becoming one with God here on earth.

Although there is a real heaven outside of spacetime the heaven Jesus often referred to was a state within which is what he already possessed, put simply Jesus had Christ like divinity and we can also have the same Christ like divinity through spiritual growth. How else can we fulfill Jesus words that we shall do greater things than he as he goes to the father?
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  #2  
Unread 12th April 2010, 02:59 PM
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Sounds like delusions of grandeur to me.

I don't see anything in the apostolic writings about once you grow enough in this world, then we reach 'Jesus' status. I see them state that when we see Him, we will be like Him, but I won't see him here.

I also see that we live in a corruptable body, and need to trade this one in eventually for an incorruptable body. I'd think that's a prerequisite.
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Unread 12th April 2010, 04:14 PM
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I believe there was once an angel who aspired to match the position of God. Scripturally I see no merit to claims that we can literally be "like Jesus." If it were possible for any man to perfectly fulfill God's will and requirements why would we need a Christ?
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Unread 12th April 2010, 04:44 PM
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Texan40,the argument put forward is that Jesus last name was not Christ. He never referred to himself as Jesus Christ but his characteristic was Christ. Jesus introduced us to the Christ concept, that level of consciousness[or spiritual attainment] we can acheive. This is why he prayed for nondualism in that we might be one with the father and do the things that he did.

I guess its dependant on how one views Jesus mission on earth. Was it to do everything for us so we might be zapped rightous at the end by him or begin a Christ like walk, taking up our own cross and following in his footsteps. Did Jesus do everything for our salvation? Do we just accept it through faith in his grace? Or did he map the path for us to attain the same levels? In essence did Jesus introduce us to the concept of Christhood that we must work towards? Please note I am not saying this is or isnt but am interpreting the debate as I understand it.

Also why is it that we are not seeing Christ like miracles regually anymore? Is it because churchitians are relying on the magic of a mythical God through Jesus rather than evolving into Christhood as mapped out by Jesus.
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Unread 12th April 2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex-C-L View Post
Just wondered if anybody agreed with the premise that comes from nondual consciousness that we can reach Christ like status here on earth [the kingdom of heaven is within]. Jim Marion argues this point in his book entitled "Putting on the mind of Christ" in as much as Jesus was one with the father and that through his example we can finally end the concensus of duality and reach a higher state by becoming one with God here on earth.

Although there is a real heaven outside of spacetime the heaven Jesus often referred to was a state within which is what he already possessed, put simply Jesus had Christ like divinity and we can also have the same Christ like divinity through spiritual growth. How else can we fulfill Jesus words that we shall do greater things than he as he goes to the father?
I don't know who to disagree with, is this you saying this or the man you are talking about?

The way I believe this is almost correct, not in our body or soul but in our born again spirit we already are Christ like. EPH. 4:24, and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. I think your, or his, use of "divinity" is making this confusing for others. Christ is not a person nor is always used to signify apart of the God head. It sometimes is used to signify the annointing of God, Christ means the annointed one. Another thing people have to understand, while Jesus left this world to ascend into heaven, Christ stayed down here on earth in the lives of his believers.

Can we have this same annointing, why of course we can, Jesus gave it to his apostles and subsequently all believers in him. We absolutely do not eventually recieve it through spiritual growth, we recieve it when we become born again. You, or this man, says through spiritual growth, well sort of. We all grow spiritually by tapping into that which was created in us when we first believed, the born again spirit which was created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. We all have to renew our minds to it, that is what spiritual growth is all about, tapping into what is already inside of us, for it's Christ in us that is the hope of glory.


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Unread 12th April 2010, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex-C-L View Post
Texan40,the argument put forward is that Jesus last name was not Christ. He never referred to himself as Jesus Christ but his characteristic was Christ. Jesus introduced us to the Christ concept, that level of consciousness[or spiritual attainment] we can acheive. This is why he prayed for nondualism in that we might be one with the father and do the things that he did.

I guess its dependant on how one views Jesus mission on earth. Was it to do everything for us so we might be zapped rightous at the end by him or begin a Christ like walk, taking up our own cross and following in his footsteps. Did Jesus do everything for our salvation? Do we just accept it through faith in his grace? Or did he map the path for us to attain the same levels? In essence did Jesus introduce us to the concept of Christhood that we must work towards? Please note I am not saying this is or isnt but am interpreting the debate as I understand it.

Also why is it that we are not seeing Christ like miracles regually anymore? Is it because churchitians are relying on the magic of a mythical God through Jesus rather than evolving into Christhood as mapped out by Jesus.
"Christ" translates (AFAIK) to "anointed." Jesus was the Messiah of prophesy anointed by the Holy Spirit. He never took any ownership of the miracles performed, rather he often told the healed that they had been healed by their own faith. He also told his disciples that they could do as He could do by way of spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit still heals people today and it still gives people spiritual gifts. This is outside the scope of why Jesus voluntarily allowed himself to be punished for our sins even though he was perfect. I believe that no son of man can measure up to God's standard. We are born flawed and have a propensity for selfishness. IMO there were only ever 3 perfect human beings. Adam and Eve before the fall, and Jesus. Had Jesus sinned he could not be our arbiter between sin and God regardless of the truth of his message and hence would not have been the Messiah.
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Unread 12th April 2010, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex-C-L View Post
Just wondered if anybody agreed with the premise that comes from nondual consciousness that we can reach Christ like status here on earth [the kingdom of heaven is within]. Jim Marion argues this point in his book entitled "Putting on the mind of Christ" in as much as Jesus was one with the father and that through his example we can finally end the concensus of duality and reach a higher state by becoming one with God here on earth.

Although there is a real heaven outside of spacetime the heaven Jesus often referred to was a state within which is what he already possessed, put simply Jesus had Christ like divinity and we can also have the same Christ like divinity through spiritual growth. How else can we fulfill Jesus words that we shall do greater things than he as he goes to the father?
Sounds like someone selling something.
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Unread 12th April 2010, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex-C-L View Post
Just wondered if anybody agreed with the premise that comes from nondual consciousness that we can reach Christ like status here on earth [the kingdom of heaven is within]. Jim Marion argues this point in his book entitled "Putting on the mind of Christ" in as much as Jesus was one with the father and that through his example we can finally end the concensus of duality and reach a higher state by becoming one with God here on earth.

Although there is a real heaven outside of spacetime the heaven Jesus often referred to was a state within which is what he already possessed, put simply Jesus had Christ like divinity and we can also have the same Christ like divinity through spiritual growth. How else can we fulfill Jesus words that we shall do greater things than he as he goes to the father?
I don't agree with this view.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
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Unread 12th April 2010, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Faulty View Post
Sounds like delusions of grandeur to me.

I don't see anything in the apostolic writings about once you grow enough in this world, then we reach 'Jesus' status. I see them state that when we see Him, we will be like Him, but I won't see him here.

I also see that we live in a corruptable body, and need to trade this one in eventually for an incorruptable body. I'd think that's a prerequisite.
I agree with what you have to say here,we must walk in humility.The devil thought he was like God.
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Unread 13th April 2010, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Alex-C-L View Post
Just wondered if anybody agreed with the premise that comes from nondual consciousness that we can reach Christ like status here on earth [the kingdom of heaven is within]. Jim Marion argues this point in his book entitled "Putting on the mind of Christ" in as much as Jesus was one with the father and that through his example we can finally end the concensus of duality and reach a higher state by becoming one with God here on earth.
The problem I have with books like this is that they are written by people who put themselves on a pedestal. The title carries a very heavy presupposition, which we could identify by expanding it as follows:

"Putting on the mind of Christ; just like I did" by Jim Marion.

In other words, the title contains a buried heresy; that of blasphemy. Jim thinks he was able to put on the mind of Christ, and through his gospel, we can do the same.

Thanks, Jim, but if it is all the same with you, no thanks.

Although there is a real heaven outside of spacetime the heaven Jesus often referred to was a state within which is what he already possessed, put simply Jesus had Christ like divinity and we can also have the same Christ like divinity through spiritual growth. How else can we fulfill Jesus words that we shall do greater things than he as he goes to the father?
Jesus did not have 'Christ like divinity'. Christ is a title referring to the Lord's status as the anointed one. He was anointed in his ministry, and in his death and resurrection. At the same time, he is eternally fully human, and fully God. His divinity is not an aspect of his Christology, in other words, his Christology (his anointing) follows from his divinity.

Certainly as Christians we share Christ's spirit, and through him we become more like the Lord. However, our aim in being Christ like is not to perform signs and wonders, but to search out and then follow the will of God.

I suspect it is not God's will for any of us to write books proclaiming ourselves equal to God himself. Neither is it the will of God for us to meddle with mind expansion of any kind, either through drink, drugs, or dubious spiritual practices.
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