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  #681  
Old 27th May 2012, 07:30 AM
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Matthew 10:36

και εχθροι του ανθρωπου οι οικειακοι αυτου

and enemies the man the household his

and the man's enemies - those of his own house.
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  #682  
Old 27th May 2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothew View Post
Matthew 10:36

και εχθροι του ανθρωπου οι οικειακοι αυτου

and enemies the man the household his

and the man's enemies - those of his own house.
Mat 10:36 και εχθροι του ανθρωπου οι οικιακοι αυτου
36 And a man's enemies shall be those of his household.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
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  #683  
Old 27th May 2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by he-man View Post
Mat 10:36 και εχθροι του ανθρωπου οι οικιακοι αυτου
36 And a man's enemies shall be those of his household.
I just don't see "shall be".
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  #684  
Old 27th May 2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothew View Post
I just don't see "shall be".
With a verb missing, something must be inserted. Often "will be" is inserted (since Jesus is speaking in the future tense). However, I like your use of a dash. Modern English has lots of nice punctuation, and that can be exploited in translation.

Now that I'm here, though, my gut feel (supported by a few translations) is that και εχθροι του ανθρωπου is better captured in English by "a man's enemies." Even better, perhaps, "a person's enemies," since ανθρωπου covers both men and women (and this verse summarises the men and women in the previous verse). Still, "a man's enemies" reads much, much better (and I see the new gender-friendly NIV has stuck with it).
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Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
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  #685  
Old 27th May 2012, 10:22 AM
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It's worth noting that this passage is a (very rough) quote from Micah 7:6:

for the son treats the father with contempt,
the daughter rises up against her mother,
the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
a man's enemies are the men of his own house.


From the Hebrew, I think, since the LXX has different wording:

διότι υἱὸς ἀτιμάζει πατέρα
θυγάτηρ ἐπαναστήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν μητέρα αὐτῆς
νύμφη ἐπὶ τὴν πενθερὰν αὐτῆς
ἐχθροὶ ἀνδρὸς πάντες οἱ ἄνδρες οἱ ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ αὐτοῦ
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Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
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  #686  
Old 27th May 2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
With a verb missing, something must be inserted. Often "will be" is inserted (since Jesus is speaking in the future tense). However, I like your use of a dash. Modern English has lots of nice punctuation, and that can be exploited in translation.

Now that I'm here, though, my gut feel (supported by a few translations) is that και εχθροι του ανθρωπου is better captured in English by "a man's enemies."
Yes, I like that too!

και εχθροι του ανθρωπου οι they shall be οικιακοι αυτου: nominative plural masculine

Matthew 10:36 DBY
The Darby Translation
and they of his household [shall be] a man's enemies.

Matthew 10:36 WNT
Weymouth New Testament
and a man's own family will be his foes.

Matthew 10:36 KJV
King James Version
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household

Matthew 10:36 RHE
Douay-Rheims
And a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
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  #687  
Old 28th May 2012, 06:58 AM
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Matthew 10:37

ο φιλων πατερα η μητερα υπερ εμε ουκ εστιν μου αξιος και ο φιλων υιον η θυγατερα υπερ εμε ουκ εστιν μου αξιος

The loves father or mother over me not is me worthy and the loves son or daughter over me not is me worthy

Whoever loves father of mother over me is not worthy of me and whoever loves son or daughter over me is not worthy of me,
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  #688  
Old 28th May 2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothew View Post
Matthew 10:37

ο φιλων πατερα η μητερα υπερ εμε ουκ εστιν μου αξιος και ο φιλων υιον η θυγατερα υπερ εμε ουκ εστιν μου αξιος

The loves father or mother over me not is me worthy and the loves son or daughter over me not is me worthy

Whoever loves father of mother over me is not worthy of me and whoever loves son or daughter over me is not worthy of me,
Mat 10:37 ο φιλων πατερα η μητερα υπερ εμε ουκ εστιν μου αξιος και ο φιλων υιον η θυγατερα υπερ εμε ουκ εστιν μου αξιος

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother over me is not worthwhile of me: and he that loveth son or daughter over me is not worthwhile of me.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
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  #689  
Old 29th May 2012, 07:01 AM
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Matthew 10:38

και ος ου λαμβανει τον σταυρον αυτου και ακολουθει οπισω μου ουκ εστιν μου αξιος

and whoever not take the cross his and follow after me not is me worthy

and whoever does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.
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  #690  
Old 29th May 2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Timothew View Post
Matthew 10:38

και ος ου λαμβανει τον σταυρον αυτου και ακολουθει οπισω μου ουκ εστιν μου αξιος

and whoever not take the cross his and follow after me not is me worthy

and whoever does not take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 και ος ου λαμβανει τον σταυρον αυτου και ακολουθει οπισω μου ουκ εστιν μου αξιος

Mat 10:38 And who does not take his cross, and attends the reverse of me, is not just of me.
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
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