This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
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Dear DaisyBee,
May I call you DaisyBee? There are five basic things that
~you~ believe. D. A. I .S. Y. You and I have already covered the
letter "D". You told me you didn't see eye to eye with the TulipBee.
The letter "D" means "Diminished Depravity (Free Will or Human
Ability)" You already told me you believe in free will and you have to
ask for Salvation.
I was telling you five basic things that I believe. T. U. L. I. P.
You and I have already covered the letter "T". The letter "T" means
"Total Depravity or Total Inability" I already told you that I believe
in total inability to ask for salvation and that God does the choosing
alone and you can't ask.
So we made it to the first letter. That wasn't so bad. Now I know
(knew) what you see eye to eye on "D" and now you know what you see
eye to eye on "T". DaisyBee, we got 4 more letters to go. Are you
ready for "A" and "U" or have you had it with your TulipBee brother?
It's only 4 letters. it won't be hard. Come on little bee bee. 4/5ths
way there. here bee. bee bee please? bee?
If you accept (?), You can be the little DaisyBee that flies around
planting the 5 basic things the Southern Baptist church wants you to
teach others. I'm the TulipBee that hops from flower to flower
spreading the Word of God as the reformed teach.
Baby's love little bees that flies around. They laugh and dance and
have so much fun. Wheeeeeee! Are you having fun with TulipBeeeeeee?
Here is a video my very young preacher that told me God choose him
before he was born. He didn't have time to choose. He just figured out
how to do the walk. He's not ready for meat, yet. He likes
honey-flavored Hotdogs. You, DaisyBee are saying , this preacher
had a little time and asked for salvation on his own.
Well, you can teach a baby to read at 12-15 months, so guess you can teach
them to preach? I've seen this video before-isn't he cute? But I'm afraid he
has no idea what he's saying. He's been coached. What is he saying anyway??
-----------
> has no idea what he's saying. He's been coached. What is he saying anyway??
He is saying, "DaisyBee! DaisyBee! Let TulipBee tell you what the
letter "A" in D.A.I.S.Y. means and What the letter "U" means in
T.U.L.I.P.".
------------
> Well, you can teach a baby to read at 12-15 months, so guess you can teach
> them to preach? I've seen this video before-isn't he cute? But I'm afraid he
I wonder if this "preacher" meets the qualifications for an
elder/pastor set forth in Timothy and Titus? This is what
americhristianity has fallen too.
---------------
> Ok, what does AU mean? AUBURN UNIVERSITY........ WAR EAGLES!
Close. Almost there.
In the Past letter, I described myself as being a Calvinist and I
described you as being an Arminian. I know thats a new word and it
doesn't sound right to you. It sounds like I'm calling you a name. I'm
not. I'm using words thats been used for centuries and it's very new
to you. Millions have used these two words, Calvinism and Arminianism.
The table below shows a comparison between Arminianism and Calvinism
by using the acronyms DAISY and TULIP. Months ago, I asked for your
permission to show you the 5 points of Calvinism (T.U.L.I.P.). Just 5.
I'm not going to go on and on on this. I'm just going to show you 5
points of TULIP.
I want to tell you what you (?) (Independent Southern Baptist)
believe in. It's much easier, quicker and a lot simpler if I use the 5
points of Arminianism, (D.A.I.S.Y.) so you'll understand the
difference. We can talk flowers!
You're almost there, Let talk about "A." (All-Encompassing Call) and
"U." (Unconditional Election). Not AUBURN UNIVERSITY. Go WAR EAGLES!
We covered T = Total Depravity and D = Deliberate Sin and it wasn't so
hard. Wasn't it, Peggy. You believe in Free-Will (asking) and I don't.
Thats an agreement, right?
Now go join the drill team at (A.)UBURN (U.)NIVERSITY.
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
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Someone asked me what Dispensationalism was and I found this page: Dispensationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I wanted to show you, even though you might not have any clue what
Dispensationalism is, that Darby is the guy who started it. See the
Picture below and you can see it started near 1870. I wanted to show
you that the popular "End Time" drama may have started with this one
man. You may notice that some Bibles, perhaps your own Bible, have
commentaries at the bottom of each page written by Scofield: C. I. Scofield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you notice on the picture, you'll see Scofield's name, a supporter of Darby.
I just wanted to show you the possibility that all these End Time's
fiction started from this one man after 2,000 years of no one talking
about the End Times like he did. Think about it. All of a sudden this
man wakes up from a dream or thought and everyone falls for him
theories.
Do you trust him?
You don't have to answer that. I just came across this picture and
though to show you that so you can see it sprouted from nowhere.
I think you've heard plenty. Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Jerry Falwel,
Jeffery Grant and tons others teaches them.
Mama loves to watch John Hagee, every weekend. I believe you gave mama
a book on the popular "End TImes series", long time ago.
I've read their books in my 20's and 30's.
No big deal, just look out for the fiction writers if you can.
-----------------------------------
Dispensationalism is a relatively modern hermeneutic, or way of
interpreting the scriptures, that has roots in the teachings of John
Darby, was greatly popularized by C. I. Scofield, through the notes in
his study bible, became influential through the establishment of
Dallas Theological Seminary and many of its professors, including
Lewis Sperry Chafer and Charles Ryrie, and has been greatly
sensationalized and made influential at a popular level through the
fiction and dramatic predictions and interpretations of authors such
as Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. Today, Dispensationalism is hugely
influential worldwide, having a significant impact not just on the
doctrine of the Church, but even on global politics, as the
Dispensationally-driven Christian Zionist movement, championed by such
men as John Hagee, has largely shaped America's Middle Eastern
policies for many years.
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
----------------
I got this in the mail from Jerry. Jerry gave me a rare Bible,
a 1599 Geneva Bible. When I read the email, he was going to cover Charles Finney,
I saw "self regeneration" (asking) in the mail, I thought of you,
right away. You're so gong-ho about Self Regeneration. When you hear
about Charles Finney, go ahead and fall asleep and take a little nap
in the pew.
Oh! DaisyBee, you're running the nursery during the sermons. You have nothing to
worry about, you're safe. Keep up with the good work.
TulipBee
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Beware of False Prophets
The Folly of Charles G. Finney
“Charles Grandison Finney was a heretic. That language is not too
strong. Though he excelled at cloaking his opinions in ambiguous
language and biblical-sounding expressions, his views were almost pure
Pelagianism. The arguments he employed to sustain those views were
nearly always rationalistic and philosophical, not biblical. To
canonize this man as an evangelical hero is to ignore the facts of
what he stood for.” -- Phillip, Spurgeon Achieves
Nineteenth century revivalist Charles G. Finney had a profound impact
on the church in his day. And his methods of revival are still being
used today, nearly two hundred years later. But what did Finney
teach? Did he believe in Sola Scriptura? Did Finney teach self
regeneration? Did he preach the true gospel – justification by grace
alone through faith alone in Christ alone? Or did he present what the
Apostle Paul called “another gospel” (Gal. 1: 8-9)?
In addition, what was his moral government theory of the atonement:
Did Christ die on the cross simply to show the awfulness of sin, as
Finney teaches? Or did he actually make a payment for the sins of his
people? Can man save himself by moral obedience? Sadly, many
Bible-believing, Christ-loving Christians who promote Finney’s
revivalistic methods never consider the underlying theology from which
those methods originated.
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
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This email was a response to DaisyBee's son's Email about him on a mission
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> recommitted their lives to Christ. It is so difficult sometimes to break
> through the barrier of some people’s ideas of what it takes to be a
> Christian. It is tough for people to surrender that it is not by what they
> do that gets them to heaven, but by their faith in Jesus Christ alone. But,
> thank God that he does break these ideas down when he is ready!!! Time flew
On the last letter, DaisyBee, I mentioned
self-regeneration. Thats why it's so
~difficult~ (impossible) to tell them
to "accept Jesus"or "make a decision
for Christ".
Let's catch up on proof texts:
"There is none who
understands; There
is none who seeks
after God" (Romans
3:11 NKJ)
"Go into all the
world and preach
the good news
to all creation"
(Mark 16:15 NIV)
Paul in Romans references the
unregenerate. They neither
understand the Gospel, nor do
they seek God.
So, exhorting people to "accept
Jesus" is futile. It's NOT a
DECISION that's made intellectually
or emotionally.
Only those subject to regeneration
come to Christ ...because HE first
came to them !
The word "preach" in Mark 16:15
is the Greek term kerusso. It's
what a herald or public crier does,
and means "proclaim".
A herald or public crier doesn't
try to convince or harangue you.
They simply make ~announcements~.
[ The NRSV, ISV, NJB, EMTV, and
PT, all render kerusso as "proclaim". ]
So, the Scriptural and Reformation
approach isn't to tell people to
"accept Jesus" or "make a decision
for Christ" because it don't work
that way.
"There is none who
understands; There
is none who seeks
after God"
The unregenerate ~can't~ have Saving
Faith !
The regenerate can, but it ain't a
"choice" or "decision" they make.
They were Born Again [regenerated]
into it (John 3:3).
Thus, Reformation Christians merely
proclaim the Gospel ["Good News"].
The regenerate shall respond. The
unregenerate can't respond.
No "accepting Jesus" or "deciding
for Christ".
Salvation is entirely binary: Either
one has Saving Faith ...or they don't !
The regenerate respond to the Gospel
proclamation with faith. A ~gifted~
faith.
The unregenerate -at most- can only
fake it. ( And often do when told
it's a choice/decision they make ! )
But there's no "decision" involved
except the Lord's decision to Elect
us, to regenerate us, and to gift
us with Saving Faith.
When we make it the person's "decision",
we're telling them that ...at least in
part... they're saving themselves !
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
----------------
This email was a response to DaisyBee's son's Email about him on a mission
-------------
> those who weren’t ready to make commitments to Christ today, it was just as
> encouraging to see barriers toward Christ fall down as they became more
> receptive.
"ready" ?
"receptive"?
OK DaisyBee. I'll leave you alone on this for awhile
If you like to chew gum constantly so that your ears won’t pop in case of the rapture.
If you always leave the top down on your convertible — just in case.
If bar code scanners make you nervous.
If you have been a Christian for less than one year and you have already studied through the Book of Revelation twelve times.
If you attend a church that sings as a Christian hymn the 1960s pop song "Up, Up and Away."
If you think General Revelation is the commander in chief of the armies of Armageddon.
If you can name more dispensations than commandments.
If you forget your wife’s birthday, but you know the latest predicted date for the rapture.
If you have already forgotten the last date predicted for the Rapture but you are excited about the most recent prediction, confident that "this is it!"
If you are a book collector and you long to locate a copy of The Late Great Planet Earth in the original Greek.
If you believe that the term "Early Church Fathers" refers to J. N. Darby, C. I. Scofield and Lewis Sperry Chafer.
If you would like a copy of Hal Lindsey's personal study Bible with penciled in corrections.
If you have on your den wall a framed, aerial photograph of Jerry Falwell.
If in casual conversation with friends and fellow employees at work you begin every sentence with "According to biblical prophecy."
If more than one of your children is named Ryrie, Chafer or Darby (however, you may deduct this from your overall score if you have a child name Calvin).
If you get excited when you see a sentence with a parenthesis.
If your license plate reads: "IM PR TRB." (You get extra credit if you have a friend who actually knows what it means -- and wishes he had one.)
If you believe the musical "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" contains an apocalyptic message.
If you ever thought you won a theological argument by stating: "Well, as Tim LaHaye has saliently argued...."
If you can name all three of Hal Lindsey's wives in order of occurrence.
If there are more underlined sentences in your copy of Late Great Planet Earth than in your Bible.
If you consider Tommy Ice an authority on anything.
If your Pastor gives a sermon exclusively from the Scofield Reference Bible study notes. (You get extra credit if he doesn't realize he has done so.)
If you own a leather-bound, red-letter edition of the Left Behind series.
If you have to have a chart before you can understand salvation by grace through faith.
If you’ve ever had more than three candidates for the AntiChrist at one time. (You get extra credit if you justified it by arguing from the doctrine of the Trinity.)
If you can read Stephen King novels and chuckle, but you see 666 on a cash register receipt and you begin screaming and run out of the story crying out: "I told you so!"
If you took Hal Lindsey’s advice forty years ago not to make any long term plans and are now broke, uneducated and in a dead-end job. (You get extra credit if your sanctification is such that you are not miffed at his raking in millions and investing them in long-term real estate ventures. )
If you always make sure there’s at least one non-Christian pilot on every flight you take. (You get extra credit if you discount the argument that: "If God had meant for us to fly he would have given us tickets." You must deduct points, however, if you are convinced Matt. 28:20 is a compelling argument against Christians' flying, because you understand the passage to be warning that Jesus promises "Low, I am with you always.")
If you believe the concern about "population explosion" refers to Muslims' blowing themselves up to make a salient theological point, and you are convinced there must be a verse in Revelation that mentions it (because explosions produce fire and fire occurs often in Revelation).
If you still hold a lingering suspicion about Gorbachev’s birthmark on his forehead.
If you believe that Grant Jeffrey, Dave Hunt, Hal Lindsey, or John Hagee is a theologian.
If you know the location of the European Central Bank because you believe you have properly exegeted Revelation 13:17 from the original Belgium version.
If you count trampoline aerobics as "Rapture Practice" in your 4:00 am morning devotions. (You get extra credit if you believe the neighbors who live in the apartment below you are non-Christians and are persecuting you because they complain.)
If you think Texe Marrs’ books belong in the "Reference Works" section of your local Christian bookstore. (You get extra credit if you think they belong in your Christian bookstore at all.)
If you look for Chick Tracts in the "Theology" section of your local Christian bookstore, and then long for the latest biography on Jack T. Chick.
If you ever stand on your head out of the fear that the Rapture will occur when Jesus returns over China, because you are confident of your exegesis of Rev. 9:16 regarding the battle involving 250,000,000 million Chinese soldiers.
If your baby’s stroller has a break-away sun bonnet. (You get extra credit if it also has a bumper sticker on it stating: "In case of Rapture this vehicle will be unbabied.")
If you have five children, but refuse to buy life insurance on yourself because "I won't be needing it."
If your personal hymn favorite is: "My hope is built on nothing less, than Scofield's notes and Moody Press."
If Clarence Larkin is your favorite artist and you scoff at Norman Rockwell's meager artistic attempts.
If you think there are only two millennial positions: Pre-Trib and Liberal.
If your favorite party game is "Pin the horns on the Beast."
If your favorite Christian TV game show is: "Name that Antichrist."
If after reading the Left Behind series you file formal legal papers leaving your body to science fiction. (You get extra credit, though, if you realize the error of reading too many dispensationalist books and you donate your eyes to an organ donor before you die.)
If you subscribe to the newspaper simply to keep up with biblical prophecy.
I used to be until I missed at least 7 raptures. Maybe the rapture is waiting on me instead.
---------
"If you can name
more dispensations
than commandments"
The above one of those funny-but-true
things. Dispies are more familiar with
doctrines that are not in the Bible than
with doctrines which are in the Bible !
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
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This email is in response about Mr. DaisyBee's health condition.
------------------
interesting device. (Mr. DaisyBee were having a hole in his heart plugged up) Sounds like it should be rubbery instead of
steely. He ma have to get a new one each year. Maybe I have a hole
also. So it must be "not enough oxygen" in his brain rather than a
stroke. Stroke means clogging. It didn't clog, right? Just not enough
oxygen. right.
---------------
> It did clog-from blood clot. Caused no oxygen for a sec and that causes
> numbness. The first time it happened--his WHOLE body was affected--felt like
> someone drapped a coat of steel over him--felt real heavy...weird. We knew
> something was not right. It didn't last long--I think 'most' men just
> think..... hmmmm that was weird and never go have it checked out..then have
> massive stroke one day
----------------
> numbness. The first time it happened--his WHOLE body was affected--felt like
> someone drapped a coat of steel over him--felt real heavy...weird. We knew
Did he take the Blue pill???? You need to cover all the mirrors in your house!
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
----------------
This is TulipBee's respsonse to DaisyBee's email.
------------------
THIS WILL GIVE YOU CHILLS:
AFTER A FEW OF THE USUAL SUNDAY EVENING HYMNS,
THE CHURCH'S PASTOR SLOWLY STOOD UP,
WALKED OVER TO THE PULPIT AND,
BEFORE HE GAVE HIS SERMON FOR THE EVENING,&
HE BRIEFLY INTRODUCED A GUEST MINISTER
WHO WAS IN THE SERVICE THAT EVENING.
IN THE INTRODUCTION, THE PASTOR TOLD THE
CONGREGATION THAT THE GUEST MINISTER WAS
ONE OF HIS DEAREST CHILDHOOD FRIENDS AND
THAT HE WANTED HIM TO HAVE A FEW MOMENTS
TO GREET THE CHURCH AND SHARE WHATEVER
HE FELT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE SERVICE..
WITH THAT, AN ELDERLY MAN STEPPED UP TO THE
PULPIT AND BEGAN TO SPEAK.
'A FATHER, HIS SON, AND A FRIEND OF HIS SON WERE
SAILING OFF THE PACIFIC COAST ,' HE BEGAN.
'WHEN A FAST APPROACHING STORM BLOCKED ANY
ATTEMPT TO GET BACK TO THE SHORE.
THE WAVES WERE SO HIGH, THAT EVEN THOUGH THE
FATHER WAS AN EXPERIENCED SAILOR, HE COULD NOT
KEEP THE BOAT UPRIGHT AND THE THREE WERE SWEPT
INTO THE OCEAN AS THE BOAT CAPSIZED.'
THE OLD MAN HESITATED FOR A MOMENT,
MAKING EYE CONTACT WITH TWO TEENAGERS WHO WERE,
FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE SERVICE BEGAN,
LOOKING SOMEWHAT INTERESTED IN HIS STORY .
THE AGED MINISTER CONTINUED WITH HIS STORY ,
'GRABBING A RESCUE LINE, THE FATHER HAD TO MAKE THE
MOST EXCRUCIATING DECISION OF HIS LIFE: TO WHICH BOY
WOULD HE THROW THE OTHER END OF THE LIFE LINE.
HE ONLY HAD SECONDS TO MAKE THE DECISION.
THE FATHER KNEW THAT HIS SON WAS A CHRISTIAN AND
HE, ALSO, KNEW THAT HIS SON'S FRIEND WAS NOT.
THE AGONY OF HIS DECISION COULD NOT BE MATCHED BY
THE TORRENT OF WAVES..
AS THE FATHER YELLED OUT, 'I LOVE YOU, SON!'
HE THREW OUT THE LIFE LINE TO HIS SON'S FRIEND.
BY THE TIME THE FATHER HAD PULLED THE FRIEND BACK
TO THE CAPSIZED BOAT, HIS SON HAD DISAPPEARED BENEATH
THE RAGING SWELLS INTO THE BLACK OF NIGHT.
HIS BODY WAS NEVER RECOVERED.
BY THIS TIME, THE TWO TEENAGERS WERE SITTING UP
STRAIGHT IN THE PEW, ANXIOUSLY WAITING FOR THE NEXT
WORDS TO COME OUT OF THE OLD MINISTER'S MOUTH.
'THE FATHER,' HE CONTINUED, 'KNEW HIS SON WOULD
STEP INTO ETERNITY WITH JESUS AND HE COULD NOT
BEAR THE THOUGHT OF HIS SON'S FRIEND STEPPING INTO
AN ETERNITY WITHOUT JESUS .. THEREFORE, HE SACRIFICED
HIS SON TO SAVE THE SON'S FRIEND. '
HOW GREAT IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT HE SHOULD DO the
SAME FOR US. OUR HEAVENLY FATHER SACRIFICED HIS ONLY
BEGOTTEN SON THAT WE COULD BE SAVED. I URGE YOU TO
ACCEPT HIS OFFER TO RESCUE YOU AND TAKE A HOLD OF THE
LIFE LINE HE IS THROWING OUT TO YOU IN THIS SERVICE.'
WITH THAT, THE OLD MAN TURNED AND SAT BACK DOWN IN
HIS CHAIR AS SILENCE FILLED THE ROOM.
THE PASTOR AGAIN WALKED SLOWLY TO THE PULPIT AND
DELIVERED A BRIEF SERMON WITH AN INVITATION AT THE
END. HOWEVER, NO ONE RESPONDED TO THE APPEAL.
WITHIN MINUTES AFTER THE SERVICE ENDED, THE TWO
TEENAGERS WERE AT THE OLD MAN'S SIDE.
'THAT WAS A NICE STORY ,' POLITELY STATED ONE OF
THEM,'BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS VERY REALISTIC FOR A
FATHER TO GIVE UP HIS ONLY SON'S LIFE IN HOPES THAT
THE OTHER BOY WOULD BECOME A CHRISTIAN.'
'WELL, YOU'VE GOT A POINT THERE,' THE OLD MAN REPLIED,
GLANCING DOWN AT HIS WORN BIBLE. A BIG SMILE BROADENED
HIS NARROW FACE. HE ONCE AGAIN LOOKED UP AT THE BOYS
AND SAID, 'IT SURE ISN'T VERY REALISTIC, IS IT? BUT,
I'M STANDING HERE TODAY TO TELL YOU THAT STORY GIVES
ME A GLIMPSE OF WHAT IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR GOD
TO GIVE UP HIS SON FOR ME.
YOU SEE...
I WAS THAT FATHER AND YOUR PASTOR IS MY SON'S FRIEND.'
-----------------
>BEGOTTEN SON THAT WE COULD BE SAVED. I URGE YOU TO
>ACCEPT HIS OFFER TO RESCUE YOU AND TAKE A HOLD OF THE
>LIFE LINE HE IS THROWING OUT TO YOU IN THIS SERVICE.'
DaisyBee, you ~deny~ the total depravity of man, in that you hold that the will of man is free and has the ability to choose Christ and the salvation that is in Him. Such teaching is false and delusive. This email shows this type of decisionism is based on another false and erroneous doctrine.
Your ancestors, Grandparent's and your Great Greandparents, Mama and myself have spent half of our lives teaching you proper theology of the Bible. You gave all that up and became an Arminian when you married Robert. I tried and tried and said things to make this easier on you and I know I did proper evangelism to you exactly as the Bible instructed me to but only God can open your heart to know Him. I sent you many emails sharing the Gospel to you and you still chose the doctrines of man. I sent you Martin Luther movie to share the history of how your relatives became a Protestant. I sent you an YouTube link to your facebook that explains the Gospel called 'Amazing Grace'. You and your family are heavily in Arminian theology and that is another Gospel. Get Mr. DaisyBee to watch that video link I sent you so he'll understand your mother, me and all of our (great)grandparents teachings to you before you met him. I have a copy of this movie and I can send you a copy of 'Amazing Grace' if you like. It's important to mama and myself that you do so. I love you so dearly and as a brother, I share you this Gospel.
below is a quick brief on TOTAL DEPRAVITY and also here is the link to the video, again,
-----------------------------------------------
The Truth of God teaches that man through the Fall is in a state of spiritual death and alienation from God. He is depraved and defiled in his nature. His understanding, will and affections are under the power and love of sin. 'Out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness' (Mark 7: 21-22). 'The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no not one' (Psalm 14: 2, 3). "The whole human race," in the words of Dr. Charles Hodge, "by their apostacy from God are totally depraved. By total depravity is not meant that all men are equally wicked, nor that any man is as thoroughly corrupt as it is possible for a man to be -- but there is common to all men a total alienation of the soul from God so that no unrenewed man either understands or seeks after God: no such man ever makes God his portion, or God's glory the chief end of his being. The apostacy from God is total or complete. All men worship and serve the creature rather than, and more than, the Creator. They are all therefore, declared in Scripture to be spiritually dead. They are destitute of any principle of spiritual life." That is man's condition as he is before God. 'The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God' (Romans 8: 7, 8). 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee: Ye must be born again' (John 3: 6,7). 'The heart is deceitful above all things; and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17: 9).
Arminians and you, DaisyBee, deny the total depravity of man, in that they hold that the will of man is free and has the ability to choose Christ and the salvation that is in Him. Such teaching is false and delusive. The will of man is free only to choose according to his moral nature, and as his nature is under the dominion of sin, man chooses accordingly. "Man by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation-, so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto." ('Confession of Faith,' Ch. 9, Sec. 3). 'The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned' (I Cor. 2: 14). 'No man can come unto Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day' (John 6: 44). 'Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him of My Father. From that time many of His disciples went back and walked no more with Him' (John 6: 65, 66). All who are born again are said to be 'born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God' (John 1: 13). The "evangelism- of decisionism, coming forward to the front, or standing up to make a decision for Christ, or signing decision cards, is purely Arminian. It is not of God, but of the will of man and can only end in delusion and eternal despair.
This "evangelism" of decisionism is based on another false and erroneous doctrine held and propagated by Arminians, that of a Universal Atonement. "There is in every mind, containing any acquaintance with gospel truth," said the eminent Dr. John Kennedy of Dingwall, "the idea that an interest in Christ's death is essential to safety. There is in every unrenewed heart a desire to avoid the necessity of dealing with a personal Saviour, and to attain to hope, through the gospel, without being 'born again.' The figment of a universal atonement, has been produced to meet this craving. It is ,just the gospel perverted to suit the taste of proud carnal man. 'Christ died for all, and therefore for me; I believe this, and therefore I shall be saved,' are the short stages of an easy journey to the hope of peace. To believe that Christ died for me, because He died for all, is to 'believe a lie'; but even if it were true, of what advantage could this faith be to me? His dying for me, because for all, secures nothing for me. And to believe this, is something else than to believe in Christ Himself. It is, in effect, making His death a substitute for Himself. But instead of looking on the death of Christ as it refers to you, look, in the first instance, on its bearing on His own fitness to save, and on the prospects of all who are one with Him. To view it thus, is to see Christ commended instead of superseded by His death. The first thing, I require to be assured of, is Christ's fitness to save me, a sinner. It is in Him I am called to trust. Ere I can do so, I must be persuaded that He is worthy of my confidence. This I cannot be assured of, unless I know Him as a sacrifice for sin. The merit of His sacrifice I cannot appreciate, but in the light of His personal glory. And I cannot appropriate the benefits secured by it, till I have first taken hold of Himself by faith, What I discover in the light of the cross is, that He can save me in a way that shall be to the glory of God. This is His great recommendation as a Saviour to me. If this were not true regarding Him, I could never confide in Him. And in the light in which I realise the infinite merit of His sacrifice, I know His love to be such as 'passeth knowledge.' To connect that love and the death by which it was commended, with those whom the Father gave to Him, does not deprive me of hope. It only assures me of how certain, and therefore how desirable the redemption is, which was purchased by His blood. The Person, in all His power and love, is presented to me; and the authority of God shuts me up to the acceptance of Him, in order to my salvation. It is light, revealing the glorious person, the infinite merit, and the ineffable love of Christ, and a call requiring me to come to Him; and not any supposed reference of His death to me, that encourages me to receive Him that I may be saved."
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
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> going to Mont today to Dr about this roaring ear thing..-will read later.
> Just for the record-nobody ever taught me ANYTHING. We never even went to
> church that much growing up and sure never discussed this with mama, mammy,
> grandmother or anybody else. Did they ever sit you down and tell you
> anything when you were young? I didn’t go to church until I married
> Mr. DaisyBee—pretty much lost until then…..you know Don and Jean’s story, so that
> was all I was around until then. I’ll forward the video for Mr. DaisyBee to
> see-he’ll probably email you-LOL
Being with our Grand parents at church gives us a lot of clues about worship. It's what they don't do at worship and that is the experience you and I got from them. There are simulairties in the worship style in Presbyterian churches and Methidist, Baptist, and other churches. Other churches, sometimes, gives you the feel that that are the same. What you didn't experience is what you learned. You also learned that it's your own grandparents that are involved. They make an statement to you and show you how they lived. They didn't have to sit down and tell us anything. Theres a huge difference between a family that is telling thier kids and grandkids that the decision for Christ is all up the them alone and a family that ~doesn't~ tell thier kids and grandkids that the decision for Christ is all up the them alone. One family tells you one thing and the other family tell you another thing. Two entirely different philosophy here. You were brought up in such a way that your parents never told you that it was up to you to make a decision for Christ or accept Christ on your own as Arminians do. Robert was brought up that you had to make a a decision for Christ or accept Christ own your own as if God was waiting for you to make the move, first. You felt more lost when you met Mr. DaisyBee, or any Moderen Sourthern Baptist good looking dude, because you didn't expierence that God has been waiting for you to make that decision on your own all along, or most of your life as Mr. DaisyBee did. You felt lost because your parents never told you that you had to decide and recieve the gift of faith when you were ready at when ever time. You were lost because Mr. DaisyBee told you were in the way he was brought up in the Southern Baptist World. You never expiernced that God was waiting for you to make that decision until you stumbled upon a very large group of Arminians. Your GrandParents and parent never told you that you had to decide on your own and when you're ready according to your own pleasure, to receive the gift of faith as if God was waiting for you to make that effort. (Note: Don't count Poppies Methodist Spring Hill church-grandmother never cared for that syle of worship). You were never really taught that you had to go to church to be saved either. When your grandparents and parents followed that type of worship, it made an ~extremely~ strong statement to you that something must be right in thier Christian life. When you met Mr. DaisyBee, you felt there was something wrong about your Grandparents, parents and TulipBee's Christian life. Now you see the difference or at least I hope to show you the difference. As you spent many years with the Sourthern Bapist lifestyle, you forgot your past and never really connect the two and their differences. Don and Jeans story doesn't have much to do with your Salvation. Did that sound good? Are you thinking that maybe the Gospel is right and you've always known you were saved? Doesn't it sound good that your past life with Don and Jean has nothing to do with your Salvation. You might say,"IT"S IMPOSSIBLE!', because your church and Mr. DaisyBee say something different. Your grands and parents never said that. Thats what you learned. You've become an Arimnian and rejected Calvinism which your family has been for many generations. It's simple. You an Arminian and I'm an Calvinist. Don't let those names run you off. Let me put it in another way, I'm reformed as our family has been since the death of Christ and you're a new modern mainstream worship stylist. I'm trying to use my words carefully like I've always have. I don't have the right word without using the popular term, Arminians. That word throws you off but bear with me until you open yourself and learn what your family has always taught you. We're still on the first letter, "T" that means "Total Depravity" and this is what you were taught in your younger age. You and I stated this fun conversation using T.U.L.I.P. but I've done nothing but frustrate you. I don't want to upset you and frustrate you. I will continue to do my job and evangelize to you the Gospel. I only evangelize the Gospel to you when you ask me to. When you say Aminian things, you're asking me to evangelize to you. When you send me emails like you have been, God calls me to evangelize to you the Gospel. I don't think I'm pushing you into a beliefs, I'm responding to your letters. If you send me Arminian letters, I will respond to you as my family has been for thousands of years respond to me. They taught me the Gospel. DaisyBee, You're probably saying [wash my mouth](bad word used here)! I know the Gospel too! how dare you?" I'm sorry about that but I'm telling you what OUR family has taught us since Christ. If you're upset and want to reject all of our teaching and the efforts your family has hard worked for, I'll completely understand. If you want to continue, all you got to do is keep sending me your Arminian emails or what you believe and I'll love to see you continue. Other than that, I will always be Dow and the same brother born from our great family.
Don't be discourage. You can always bring your friends and family back to the "Historic Baptist Faith" What is an Historic Baptist?, David A. West | The Reformed Reader Once God opens your heart to the Historic Baptist Beliefs, You can spread the Gospel within your church and family and bring them back to God. Historic Baptist Faith or reformed Baptist and the orthodox Presbyterians are the same thing. Your grandparents parents believed Historic Baptist Faith in a lot of ways. Southern Baptist ~IS NOT~ Historic Baptist. Historic Baptist Beliefs are Calvinist. Southern Baptist are not Calvinist. they are Arminian. Reformed Baptist and the orthodox Presbyterians are not Arminians.
I hope you're not hearing any more buzzing bees unless it's God's voice.
TulipBee
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> I’ll tell you what…..let just say we are ‘Christians’ and leave it at that.
> It’s apparently a serious subject with you and we don’t need to let it get
> in the way of our brother/sis relationship. I’ve enjoyed being able to
> email you again and stay in touch, and I don’t want to stop that. From now
> on, let’s just talk about the weather and mama’s feet. I love getting
> emails from you, but they are all like this one, no matter WHAT the subject.
> So, I won’t forward anymore religious emails. Not even the Obama ones. (and
> I have gotten lots of super good one lately). It’s Ok to have a difference
> in opinion. That’s what makes us all unique. You can be Calvinist and
> Democrat and I can be Baptist and Republican. We are as different as day
> and night. LOL
>
> Love you!
> TulipBee!!!!! Don’t send me these links-I don’t read them! lol
I know!
You don't understand them.
... cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
:-(
-------------------
>I do ‘understand’ them—I just don’t agree
When God opens a person's heart, then he understands. This is called "regeneration" That means God must chose the person ~first~ before he believes. "There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God" The unregenerate ~can't~ have Saving Faith. The regenerate can, but it ain't a "choice" or "decision" they make. They were Born Again [regenerated] into it (John 3:3). The regenerate shall respond. The unregenerate can't respond. No "accepting Jesus" or "deciding for Christ". The unregenerate -at most- can only fake it. ( And often do when told it's a choice/decision they make ! ) But there's no "decision" involved except the Lord's decision to Elect us, to regenerate us, and to gift us with Saving Faith. When we make it the person's "decision", we're telling them that ...at least in part... they're saving themselves ! You reject that God opens your heart and chooses you ~first~. You chose Him first so you're faking your Salvation. You don't have to disagree. Thats what the Bible said. I'm not saying that.
----------------
I don’t choose him first…He ‘accepts’ me.
TulipBee would declare victory !
"You're right. God chooses
us, we don't choose Him !"
Why argue with success ?
------------------
…and He accepts EVERYONE that wants accepted
TulipBee would take it at face value.
What Born again Christians and your brother
TulipBee denies: That humans first accept
God, and then God accepts them.
The Scriptures are unequivocal... "there is
none who seeks for God". Therefore, God
must FIRST accept us (Election). Only
after which can we accept Him !
There's no "Amazing Grace" in the paradigm
of DaisyBee's "us-accepting-Him/then-Him-accepting-us".
Instead, that's DaisyBee earning her salvation
(as Paul explains in Romans 4:3-6, see below).
Because DaisyBee's faith isn't something she
produces. It's a "gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8, see below).
Mrs. DaisyBee, if the Bible is correct, and faith is in fact a
"Gift of God", then we accept God because
He gifted us with faith "when we were
God's enemies" (Romans 5:10, see below).
We are "God's enemies" until gifted with faith.
And DaisyBee doesn't arrive at this faith on her own.
Rather: "this not from yourselves, it is the gift
of God".
Any contrary views that you're getting goes against
Holy Scripture. See Scriptures below.
-------------------------
Romans 4:3-6 (New International Version)
What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
Ephesians 2:8 (New International Version)
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Romans 5:10 (New International Version)
For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
This is a series of email exchanges between TulipBee and DaisyBee. They are discussions between a Calvinist and an Armininian.
---------
I was going through some forums and stumbled on a topic on "Conversion". I replied to that topic. I said:
"I've had many ups and
down but don't remember
ever ~not~ believing in
Jesus"
TulipBee
The reply was this:
The WCF speaks about regeneration
in infancy (WCF; Ch. 10, Sec. 3).
And DaisyBee, I found this:
The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646)
to
Of Effectual Calling.
to
III. Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who works when, and where, and how He pleases: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
Guess what Sister, I was saved in my infancy! I was an elected infant.
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