Roman Pope apologies enough?

OrthodoxyUSA · #41 26th January 2010, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Secundulus

What do you suggest? Do we dig up the bodies that have been buried for 500 years and put them on trial?

No, I would suggest that they be excommunicated post mortem. Honestly, I don't know what you can do.

But you should admit that you cannot lead. Be humble and repent as a whole.

DO SOMETHING!

Forgive me...

MrPolo · #42 26th January 2010, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Secundulus

The Pope claims less infallibility than many posters in this forum who claim to be illuminated to all truth by the Holy Spirit.

OrthodoxyUSA · #43 26th January 2010, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Secundulus

Because it has been repented of.

And it is a strawman because those that continue to gather around with stones in hand are not without guilt. Where is their repentance.

Jesus told a few stories about those kind of people.

The difference is in the claim of superiority.

Forgive me...

MrPolo · #44 26th January 2010, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Andrian

And how is this answering my question? The Pope still claims infallibility yet he is not infallible as he is human. The posters here do not claim that they just express opinions.

While I await for the names of the apologists who claimed that Popes are something more than human......

Permit me to ask you....did Matthew, Mark, Luke, et al. speak God's infallible truth when they penned their writings that are in Scripture? If yes, are they more than human?

Secundulus · #45 26th January 2010, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA

But you should admit that you cannot lead. Be humble and repent as a whole.

I'm pretty sure that there is not a Catholic alive today that has burned anybody at the stake. How can those alive today repent of something that they did not do?

The Pope, as the leader of the Church, has apologized for sins past. That is enough. That is all God asks people to do.

It seems many today put themselves above God and demand what God has not demanded.

Again, Jesus spoke of this.

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. “For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. “When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. “But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. “So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ “And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. “But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ “So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ “But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. “So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. “Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. ‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ “And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. “My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.” ” (Matthew 18:21–35, NASB95)

Dark_Lite · #46 26th January 2010, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA

And yet it is the east that is said to have maintained the core beliefs, even by The Church of Rome.

Councils work within the frameword described by St. Vincent of Lerins.

And no... when he say's Catholic he is not talking about Rome.

Forgive me...

Err, eh? Rome says Orthodoxy has maintained certain core beliefs. If it had maintained/developed the same set of beliefs that Catholicism has, then it would be in full communion with the Vatican. I think that it's maintained the core beliefs of apostolic Christianity because the hierarchy of the Orthodox Church has more influence over its members than some people apparently like to think. As Secundulus said, if it was entirely up to the laity, Arianism would be the truth today.

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA

But you should admit that you cannot lead. Be humble and repent as a whole.

DO SOMETHING!

Something has been done. It might not be to your liking, and perhaps more needs to be done. But if we go around saying any person/institution carrying the burden of sin cannot lead, then who exactly would lead?

OrthodoxyUSA · #47 26th January 2010, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Secundulus

I'm pretty sure that there is not a Catholic alive today that has burned anybody at the stake. How can those alive today repent of something that they did not do?

The Pope, as the leader of the Church, has apologized for sins past. That is enough. That is all God asks people to do.

We aren't talking about "a" person are we. We are talking about THE CHURCH that wants the world to follow her. We are talking about The Church of Rome... as a whole.

The Church of Rome took huge steps to rid herself of what she considered heresy... and now.. when it come to the need to make recompense she desires to take the road of least repercussion. It's lip service.

She is unfit to lead.

I have said my part.

I do not say it with hatred nor malice.

I will now withdraw.

Forgive me...

OrthodoxyUSA · #48 26th January 2010, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dark_Lite

But if we go around saying any person/institution carrying the burden of sin cannot lead, then who exactly would lead?

The council of the "whole" with The Holy Spirit speaking through it.

Act 15:22¶Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Forgive me...

LittleLambofJesus · #49 26th January 2010, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by OrthodoxyUSA

The council of the "whole" with The Holy Spirit speaking through it.

Act 15:22¶Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Forgive me...

Don't forget the "chosen 7" in Acts 6

Acts 6:4 and we to prayer, and to the ministration of the word, will give ourselves continually.'
5 And the thing was pleasing before all the multitude, and they did choose

Stephen/stefanon <4736> , a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, Stephen = "crowned"
and Philip/filippon <5376> , Philip = "lover of horses"
and Prochorus/procoron <4402> , Prochorus = "leader of the chorus"
and Nicanor/nikanora <3527> , Nicanor = "conqueror"
and Timon/timwna <5096> , Timon = "honourable"
and Parmenas/parmenan <3937>, Parmenas = "abiding"
and Nicolaus/nikolaon <3532>, a proselyte of Antioch/antiocea <491>, Nicolas = "victor of the people"

6 whom they did set before the apostles, and they, having prayed, laid on them [their] hands.
7 And the word of God did increase, and the number of the disciples did multiply in Jerusalem exceedingly; a great multitude also of the priests were obedient to the faith.

MrPolo · #50 26th January 2010, 10:37 AM

It is apparent from this thread that nothing can ever be enough for some to discard a whatever degree of disdain for the Catholic Church. Not apologies, not money, not land, nothing---short of saying they have been running a sham for centuries, and dismantling the hierarchy with the Papacy altogether. Pretty much that's what we're getting at here. Somebody should just come out and say it.