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16th January 2010, 03:55 AM
|  | Uncouth and Unenlightened Fundy
    
 | | Join Date: 29th July 2004 Location: United States
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Reps: 9,622,124,059,209,730 (power: 9,622,124,059,220) | | | I like Weber's parallel of the poisonous serpent incident in the OT to Jesus' own statement about that. It can be said that those in the OT who looked upon that effigy did so because they trusted God was telling them the truth just as those who "look upon" Jesus on the cross believe God.
__________________ "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt-- |
16th January 2010, 12:40 PM
|  | “Sunlight is painting.” - Nathaniel Hawthorne
62   
| | Join Date: 22nd October 2009 Location: In my bunker, West of Eden
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Reps: 613,652,413,851,570,176 (power: 613,652,413,851,576) | | Originally Posted by SkyWriting  Ah.. but I wonder how children fare. Of course I trust that the unborn, and the newborn are all given a fair shake, but I sometimes wonder how the fair shake works. There seem to be an accountability for thinking adults and the rest don't get much written about them. Oh well. I think this is where our faith in God comes to play. We know God from the Old Testament and from the teachings in the New Testament of Jesus, Our Lord and Savior, and the work of the Holy Spirit within us. I do not believe we will ever find occasion to question God, or His choices when we're in Heaven. I, like you, would like to have a definitive answer. My wife and I lost two children, unborn, during pregnancy. I'd like to know our children are with the Lord. Certainly there are Biblical passages that give us some comfort, but not everything is black and white. My faith, given to me by His grace and mercy, are what I depend on. God is Love, and God is Just.
__________________ God is Sovereign
Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by His unmerited favor through faith that you have been saved; it is not by anything that you have done, it is the gift of God.
Ephesians 2:9 - It is not the result of what anyone can do, so that no one can boast of it. [Williams NT]
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” [Margaret Thatcher]
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27th January 2010, 10:25 AM
| | Newbie
 
| | Join Date: 10th March 2006
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Reps: 201,104,311,100,202 (power: 201,104,311,106) | | | I might be alone with this, but it doesn't matter. I'll just try to put it simple.
I've been thinking lot about hell and it as a punishment, coming always to the same conclusion: I can't picture myself feeling content in heaven while knowing that people i care are suffering in hell, and i know that they are good people even if god hasn't entered their lives (i just do). So it wasn't easy for me, but.. i told god that i will not take my place in heaven. I feel like this is something i need to do. So in short, i'm going to hell as a volunteer. I've tried to imagine all the pain and suffering that i'll feel, but i know it will be a million times worse.
I just can't make others believe so they could be saved, so i want to save them in my own way. I want god to save my spot to those with no faith.
Why? Because they need it the most.
I don't know if god will allow this and most of you must think i'm plain ridiculous. But to be honest, after accepting my possible damnation in hell, i have more courage to confront it.
So theres my thoughts, don't wanna start an argument. I just thought someone might like a different pov.  |
27th January 2010, 10:44 AM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 27th January 2010
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Once you've turned away from the word of christ you are surely damned to the worst torments of hell. But perhaps those who never heard the word would simply be denied a place in heaven rather than suffer eternal torment for it. |
27th January 2010, 10:52 AM
| | Newbie
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Reps: 201,104,311,100,202 (power: 201,104,311,106) | | I never said that i will turn away from gods word, but that i'll stay with those without it. I'm never going to give up. I think this is why i was made strong.
But those without faith in their lives, they are just being rational inside their own world. Usually they know a great deal about the word, but don't take it seriously because they never had to. I some way it's not their fault, so i don't see it fair for them to suffer for it.
Oh wow, i must sound like a horrible christian  I just love my family so much. |
27th January 2010, 11:01 AM
|  | I will fear no evil for You are with me Angels Team
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| | Join Date: 27th March 2007 Location: On the bus to Heaven
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Reps: 3,535,994,952,310,234,624 (power: 3,535,994,952,310,267) | | Originally Posted by efelant I never said that i will turn away from gods word, but that i'll stay with those without it. I'm never going to give up. I think this is why i was made strong.
But those without faith in their lives, they are just being rational inside their own world. Usually they know a great deal about the word, but don't take it seriously because they never had to. I some way it's not their fault, so i don't see it fair for them to suffer for it.
Oh wow, i must sound like a horrible christian I just love my family so much.
Ezekiel 18:20 tells us that each of us are responsible for our sins.
20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
Scripture also tells us that faith in Jesus is required for salvation (John 3:16 and many others).
Scripture also tells us to share the good news of the Gospel of redemption with all including those in our household. There is not greater love than sharing the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior with those that do not believe. Please pray for your unbelieving members of your family and share the gospel with them.
__________________
“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.- Our Lord and Savior. |
27th January 2010, 11:03 AM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 27th January 2010
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | yeah I suppose if those who turn away from god can still evoke feelings of love in others and lead good lives it would be harsh indeed for god to send them to hell. But I'd be surprised if they were allowed to experience the full glory of heaven - why should an athiest be granted the same rewards as some one of the faith? |
27th January 2010, 11:08 AM
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Reps: 201,104,311,100,202 (power: 201,104,311,106) | | | out of grace. |
27th January 2010, 11:08 AM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 27th January 2010
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Hentenza Ezekiel 18:20 tells us that each of us are responsible for our sins.
20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
hmm to me that sorta implies that the son of a musilim who is raised in that faith and follows it will not be punished for it. |
27th January 2010, 11:30 AM
| | I will fear no evil for You are with me Angels Team
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| | Join Date: 27th March 2007 Location: On the bus to Heaven
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Reps: 3,535,994,952,310,234,624 (power: 3,535,994,952,310,267) | | Originally Posted by Leviticus20:13 hmm to me that sorta implies that the son of a musilim who is raised in that faith and follows it will not be punished for it.
John 14
1 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
6 J esus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” (Bold mine)
The Muslims lack Jesus.
__________________
“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.- Our Lord and Savior. | | |
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