Angelology: Confusion?

St.PaultheApostle · #1 21st December 2009, 04:30 PM

Sorry to bother everyone, but in my studies, I have come across some "odd" things having to do with this topic, I am confused, and I would be elated to become enlightened by anyone who can spare some knowledge on me.

In Orthodoxy, we believe in the "three choir angelic hierarchy" proposed by Dionysus the Areopagite, and later "clarified" by Roman Catholic Saint Thomas Aquinas in his book "Summa Theologicae". I understand that during this time period, theologians and clergy did not have the amount of theological resources at their disposal as we do, and that may be the result of some of these misconceptions of mine. I have used numerous sources to try to research this on my own, but it still proves to be difficult.

Three Choir Angelic Hierarchy:
The "first sphere" is made up of the:
Seraphim
Cherubim
Thrones

The "second sphere" is made up of the:
Dominions
Virtues
Powers

And the "third sphere" is made up of the:
Principalities
Archangels
Angels

1. Cherubim/Mythology?
This is odd. I have been looking at many different sources, mainly Christian, but with some Jewish influences here and there, but there seems to be some sort of misconception surrounding these angels.

A. These "Cherubim" are often portrayed as "infant angels" or angels with the visage of a young boy/girl with wings. And yet in other sections, they are referred to as "Cherubs" which are described as having "four faces" among other odd things such as the "legs of a calf". Are these two separate angels? Or do they choose a form?

What perplexes me the most is that some odd architectural and sculptural objects RESEMBLE the descriptions/depictions of these angels. For example, the "sphinx" in Egyptian mythology, the Indian "griffin", and even some creatures in Japanese mythology. There are some other odd things too which I noticed. Could these have been results of angelic/demonic apparitions?

2. The "Fallen" (Nephilim)
In Matthew 22:30, it states that angels do not reproduce or marry. Yet, in other sources, it says that some angels came to the earth to claim human wives. Do we simply believe that the meaning of Genesis 6:1-4 and Numbers 13:32-33 is that the descendants of Cain and the descendants of Seth intermarried, or is this another type of angelic being?

3. Merkabah
In the first chapter of Ezekiel, an odd type of creature/angelic deity is seen. The Merkabah, translated "those who ride" or "to ride", are beings that take the form of a "wheel" that pulls God's throne? Is this a separate being, or is this a "morphing" being that is already present on our hierarchy?

4. Popular Angels
In this topic I am VERY confused. The Great Angel Michael is said to be a lot of things. What is he categorized as? In most sources, he is an archangel, in others he is a "Prince of Seraphims", and in a few odd ones, he is "one of the angels of death"?

5. Seraphim?
The meaning of "Seraphim" can be interpreted in many ways, it can mean "snake", "fire/burning sensation", and many other things. What is the correct Orthodox translation?

Also, what is the purpose of these angels? In some sources it is said that they chant/sing "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of Hosts...", but in others they serve as Archangels?

6. Jewish "Hierarchy"
Since the Jewish worship Our Lord as well, does that mean that their hierarchy is correct as well?

7. Also, would it be seen as "heretical" to assume things?

~Thanks!~

LiturgyInDMinor · #2 21st December 2009, 04:40 PM

*subscribing*

Angelology is a cool subject.

Secundulus · #3 21st December 2009, 05:26 PM

The word angel comes from the greek angelos which simply means messenger. So at the most basic level, Angels are God's messengers to man.

I think that what we do know for certain of Angels is somewhat limited. Most of everything else is simply theological speculation derived from scripture.

Portraying Angels as Cherubs is artistic license and is not really supported in scripture.

Here is what I think is a pretty good explanation.

From the Sermons of Pope St Gregory the Great (sixth century), Matins of The Divine Office of the Western Church for 29 Sept. The Feast of St. Michael.

We say that there are nine Orders of Angels, for, by the witness of the holy Word, we know that there be Angels, Archangels, Mights, Powers, Principalities, Dominions, Thrones, Cherubim, and Seraphim. Nearly every page of the holy Word witnesseth that there be Angels and Archangels. The books of the Prophets, as is well known, do oftentimes make mention of Cherubim and Seraphim. Paul, writing to the Ephesians, i. 21, counteth up the names of four Orders, where he saith (The Father of glory.. raised (Christ) from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,) far above all Principality, and Power, and Might, and Dominion, (and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.) And the same, again, writing to the Colossians, i. 16, saith: (By (the Son) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,) whether they be Thrones, or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers; (all things were created by Him and for Him.) If, then, we add the Thrones to the four Orders of which he spake unto the Ephesians, we have five Orders; and when we add unto them the Angels and the Archangels, the Cherubim and the Seraphim, we find that the Orders of Angels are beyond all doubt nine.

But we must know that the word Angel is the designation, not of a nature, but of an office. Those holy spirits in the.heavenly fatherland are always spirits, but they may no wise be always called Angels, (which is, being interpreted, messengers,) for they are Angels only when they are sent as Messengers. Hence also it is said by the Psalmist, ciii. 5, Who makest spirits thine Angels! x as if it were, Of them who are always with Him as spirits, He doth somewhiles make use as Messengers. They who go on the lesser messages are called Angels they who go on the greater Archangels. Hence it is that unto the Virgin Mary was sent no common Angel, but the Archangel Gabriel. For the delivery of this, the highest message, it was meet that there should be sent the highest Angel. Their individual names also are so given as to signify the kind of ministry wherein each is powerful. Michael signifieth Who-is-like-unto-God? Gabriel, the Strength-of-God,and Raphael, the Medicine-of-God.

As often as anything very mighty is to be done, we see that Michael is sent, that by that very thing, and by his name, we may remember that none is able to do as God doeth. Hence that old enemy whose pride hath puffed him up to be fain to be like unto God, even he who said, I will ascend unto heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.. I will be like the Most High, (Isa. xiv. 13, 14,) this old enemy, when at the end of the world he is about to perish in the last death, having no strength but his own, is shown unto us a-fighting with Michael the Archangel, even as saith John, Apoc. xii. 7: There was war in heaven Michael and his Angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels. Unto Mary is sent Gabriel, whose name is interpreted the Strength of God, for he came to herald the appearing of Him Who was content to appear lowly that He might fight down the powers of the air. Raphael, also, as we have said, signifieth the Medicine-of-God, and it is the name of him who touched as a physician the eyes of Tobias, and cleared away his blindness.
Divinum Officium

LiturgyInDMinor · #4 21st December 2009, 05:46 PM

Why are Thrones, Principalities, Powers, etc considered to be sorts of Angels????
Why not them just be what they are? Political terms.

SummaScriptura · #5 21st December 2009, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by NRB

Why are Thrones, Principalities, Powers, etc considered to be sorts of Angels????
Why not them just be what they are? Political terms.

I agree they are political terms. But in Jewish cosmology of the time, gentile political, governmental powers are merely a lower sphere of evil, moving in synchrony with a higher heavenly sphere of powers which control the activities of the nations.

Ephesians 6:12, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

SummaScriptura · #6 21st December 2009, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by St.PaultheApostle

Sorry to bother everyone, but in my studies, I have come across some "odd" things having to do with this topic, I am confused, and I would be elated to become enlightened by anyone who can spare some knowledge on me.

In Orthodoxy, we believe in the "three choir angelic hierarchy" proposed by Dionysus the Areopagite, and later "clarified" by Roman Catholic Saint Thomas Aquinas in his book "Summa Theologicae". I understand that during this time period, theologians and clergy did not have the amount of theological resources at their disposal as we do, and that may be the result of some of these misconceptions of mine. I have used numerous sources to try to research this on my own, but it still proves to be difficult.

Three Choir Angelic Hierarchy:
The "first sphere" is made up of the:
Seraphim
Cherubim
Thrones

The "second sphere" is made up of the:
Dominions
Virtues
Powers

And the "third sphere" is made up of the:
Principalities
Archangels
Angels

<snip>

I prefer to cast off all the speculation concerning angels which have become so ingrained in our thinking during the past 2,000 years. If you simply stick with the Biblical record a lot of lore and hokum disappears like so much bad vapor.

And yes! That includes you, you cute little misfits!!!

St.PaultheApostle · #7 21st December 2009, 07:03 PM

Okay, cool everyone, but what about the "Mercabah"? My head is spinning X-/ LoL.
My "apprentices" are confused as well now, some mentor I am, instead of clarifying I confuse them further. :-P LoL.

LiturgyInDMinor · #8 21st December 2009, 07:59 PM

Read scripture, pray for clarity, and you'll be alright!

Dorothea · #9 21st December 2009, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by NRB

Why are Thrones, Principalities, Powers, etc considered to be sorts of Angels????
Why not them just be what they are? Political terms.

Here's the info:

God is not only the creator of heaven and earth; but also of everything both visible and invisible. Our Christian Church believes in the existence of spiritual beings, likewise personal, for they are also created "like man" in the image of God, who preceded the creation of the world itself. They are sexless, their number is great, however not infinite. They are "liturgical ministering spirits, sent forth to serve for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation" (Heb. 1:14).

The name given to angels in the Old Testament is that of a messenger, or a minister, a servant of God. The New Testament retains the same meaning for the word "angel." The three names that we know from the canonical books of the Holy Scripture are: Gabriel (man of God), Michael (Who is as God?), and Rafael (God heals).

The main purpose of angels is to be God's servants in His creation, and especially man's helpers. Each man is assigned a special guardian angel by God (see Matt. 18:10). The ultimate purpose of the creation of angels is the glorification and praise of God's Holy Name.

At this point mention should also be made of the "fallen angels," Lucifer and his companions. It is also the doctrine of the Church that some of the angels, created as good angels by God, revolted against God because of pride, trying to be "gods without God." The result of their revolt is their fall from God's good graces and God's life. They live an inauthentic life away from God, counteracting God and His plan of theosis for man and the world.

The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church — Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

In view of such a multitude of angels, it is natural to suppose that in the world of angels, just as in the material world, there are various degrees of perfection and, therefore, various stages or hierarchical degrees of the heavenly powers. Thus, the word of God calls some Angels and some Archangels (1 Thess. 4:16; Jude verse 9).

The Orthodox Church, guided by the views of the ancient writers of the Church and Church Fathers, divides the world of the angels into nine choirs or ranks, and these nine into three hierarchies, each hierarchy having three ranks. The first hierarchy consists of those spirits who are closest to God, namely, the Thrones, Cherubim and Seraphim. Within the second, the middle hierarchy, are the Authorities, Dominions and Powers. In the third, which is closer to us, are the Angels, Archangels and Principalities. Thus, the existence of the Angels and Archangels is witnessed by almost every page in the Holy Scriptures. The books of the prophets mention the Cherubim and Seraphim. Cherubim means to be near; hence it means the near ones; Seraphim means fiery, or filled with fire. The names of the other angelic ranks are mentioned by the Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Ephesians, saying that Christ is in the heavens "far above any Principality, and Authority, and Power, and Dominion" (Ephesians 1:21).

Besides these angelic ranks, Saint Paul teaches in his epistles to the Colossians that the Son of God created everything visible and invisible,"Thrones, Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers" (Colossians 1:16). Consequently, when we join the Thrones to those four about which the Apostle speaks to the Ephesians, that is, the Principalities, Authorities, Powers and Dominions, there are five ranks; and when to these we add Angels, Archangels, Cherubim and Seraphim, then there are nine angelic ranks.

In addition, some Church Fathers expressed the opinion that dividing the angels into nine choirs touched only upon those names that are revealed by the word of God but in no way encompasses other names and choirs of angels that have not been as yet revealed to us. For example, the Apostle John the Theologian mentions in the book of Revelation mysterious creatures and the seven spirits by the throne of God: "Grace be to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne" (Apocalypse 1:4). The Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Ephesians writes that Christ resides in heaven far above the enumerated angels and "every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come" (1:21). Thus he hints that in Heaven there are other spiritual creatures whose names are yet not revealed to mankind.

In the Holy Scriptures, some angels are called by their own names. For example, the prophet Daniel, the Apostle Jude, and the book of Revelation mention the archangel Michael (Joshua 5:13; Daniel 10:13 and 12:1; Jude verse 9; Revelation 12:7-8). The name Michael in Hebrew means Who is like God? In the Scriptures he is mentioned as the army of God and is depicted as the main fighter against the devil and his servants. Usually he is painted with a flaming sword in hand. The name Gabriel means strength of God. Both the prophet Daniel and the evangelist Luke mention Gabriel (Daniel 8:16, 9:21; Luke 1:19-26). In the Scriptures he is represented as the messenger of God's mysteries. In icons he is painted with a lily in his hand. The Scriptures mention by name three more angels: Raphael — Assistance of God, Uriel — Flame of God, and Salathiel — Prayer book to God (Tobit 3:16 and 12:12-15; 3 Esdras 4:1 and 5:20; 3 Esdras 5:16 [Note: 3 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible = 2 Esdras KJV, or 4 Esdras in Vulgate Appendix]).

What are the tasks of the beings of the spiritual world? Evidently they are designated by God to be the most perfect reflections of His greatness and glory, with inseparable participation in His blessedness. If of the visible heavens it is said, "the heavens proclaim the glory of God," then all the more is this the aim of the spiritual heavens. The prophet Isaiah was honored to see "the Lord sitting on the high extolled throne, the hems of His vestments filling the whole temple. Surrounding Him were the Seraphim, each having six wings; with two they covered His face, with two they covered His feet, and they flew with the other two. And they called to each other and said: Holy, Holy, Holy, the Lord Sabaoth! The whole world is filled with His Glory'" (Isaiah 6:1-4; Ezekiel ch. 10).

A n g e l s

LiturgyInDMinor · #10 21st December 2009, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dorothea

Here's the info:

God is not only the creator of heaven and earth; but also of everything both visible and invisible. Our Christian Church believes in the existence of spiritual beings, likewise personal, for they are also created "like man" in the image of God, who preceded the creation of the world itself. They are sexless, their number is great, however not infinite. They are "liturgical ministering spirits, sent forth to serve for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation" (Heb. 1:14).

The name given to angels in the Old Testament is that of a messenger, or a minister, a servant of God. The New Testament retains the same meaning for the word "angel." The three names that we know from the canonical books of the Holy Scripture are: Gabriel (man of God), Michael (Who is as God?), and Rafael (God heals).

The main purpose of angels is to be God's servants in His creation, and especially man's helpers. Each man is assigned a special guardian angel by God (see Matt. 18:10). The ultimate purpose of the creation of angels is the glorification and praise of God's Holy Name.

At this point mention should also be made of the "fallen angels," Lucifer and his companions. It is also the doctrine of the Church that some of the angels, created as good angels by God, revolted against God because of pride, trying to be "gods without God." The result of their revolt is their fall from God's good graces and God's life. They live an inauthentic life away from God, counteracting God and His plan of theosis for man and the world.

The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church — Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

In view of such a multitude of angels, it is natural to suppose that in the world of angels, just as in the material world, there are various degrees of perfection and, therefore, various stages or hierarchical degrees of the heavenly powers. Thus, the word of God calls some Angels and some Archangels (1 Thess. 4:16; Jude verse 9).

The Orthodox Church, guided by the views of the ancient writers of the Church and Church Fathers, divides the world of the angels into nine choirs or ranks, and these nine into three hierarchies, each hierarchy having three ranks. The first hierarchy consists of those spirits who are closest to God, namely, the Thrones, Cherubim and Seraphim. Within the second, the middle hierarchy, are the Authorities, Dominions and Powers. In the third, which is closer to us, are the Angels, Archangels and Principalities. Thus, the existence of the Angels and Archangels is witnessed by almost every page in the Holy Scriptures. The books of the prophets mention the Cherubim and Seraphim. Cherubim means to be near; hence it means the near ones; Seraphim means fiery, or filled with fire. The names of the other angelic ranks are mentioned by the Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Ephesians, saying that Christ is in the heavens "far above any Principality, and Authority, and Power, and Dominion" (Ephesians 1:21).

Besides these angelic ranks, Saint Paul teaches in his epistles to the Colossians that the Son of God created everything visible and invisible,"Thrones, Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers" (Colossians 1:16). Consequently, when we join the Thrones to those four about which the Apostle speaks to the Ephesians, that is, the Principalities, Authorities, Powers and Dominions, there are five ranks; and when to these we add Angels, Archangels, Cherubim and Seraphim, then there are nine angelic ranks.

In addition, some Church Fathers expressed the opinion that dividing the angels into nine choirs touched only upon those names that are revealed by the word of God but in no way encompasses other names and choirs of angels that have not been as yet revealed to us. For example, the Apostle John the Theologian mentions in the book of Revelation mysterious creatures and the seven spirits by the throne of God: "Grace be to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming, and from the seven spirits who are before His throne" (Apocalypse 1:4). The Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Ephesians writes that Christ resides in heaven far above the enumerated angels and "every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come" (1:21). Thus he hints that in Heaven there are other spiritual creatures whose names are yet not revealed to mankind.

In the Holy Scriptures, some angels are called by their own names. For example, the prophet Daniel, the Apostle Jude, and the book of Revelation mention the archangel Michael (Joshua 5:13; Daniel 10:13 and 12:1; Jude verse 9; Revelation 12:7-8). The name Michael in Hebrew means Who is like God? In the Scriptures he is mentioned as the army of God and is depicted as the main fighter against the devil and his servants. Usually he is painted with a flaming sword in hand. The name Gabriel means strength of God. Both the prophet Daniel and the evangelist Luke mention Gabriel (Daniel 8:16, 9:21; Luke 1:19-26). In the Scriptures he is represented as the messenger of God's mysteries. In icons he is painted with a lily in his hand. The Scriptures mention by name three more angels: Raphael — Assistance of God, Uriel — Flame of God, and Salathiel — Prayer book to God (Tobit 3:16 and 12:12-15; 3 Esdras 4:1 and 5:20; 3 Esdras 5:16 [Note: 3 Esdras in the Slavonic Bible = 2 Esdras KJV, or 4 Esdras in Vulgate Appendix]).

What are the tasks of the beings of the spiritual world? Evidently they are designated by God to be the most perfect reflections of His greatness and glory, with inseparable participation in His blessedness. If of the visible heavens it is said, "the heavens proclaim the glory of God," then all the more is this the aim of the spiritual heavens. The prophet Isaiah was honored to see "the Lord sitting on the high extolled throne, the hems of His vestments filling the whole temple. Surrounding Him were the Seraphim, each having six wings; with two they covered His face, with two they covered His feet, and they flew with the other two. And they called to each other and said: Holy, Holy, Holy, the Lord Sabaoth! The whole world is filled with His Glory'" (Isaiah 6:1-4; Ezekiel ch. 10).

A n g e l s

Thankyou.

I do not see this (from your post) as being anything to do with Angelic beings:

the Apostle Paul in his epistle to the Ephesians, saying that Christ is in the heavens "far above any Principality, and Authority, and Power, and Dominion" (Ephesians 1:21).

What am I missing?