| Christian Apologetics A forum to discuss the systematic defense of the Christian belief system with other Christians. |
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20th November 2009, 08:59 PM
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Reps: 4,469,601,123,595,931,136 (power: 4,469,601,123,595,947) | | Originally Posted by wayseer  The Jews didn't want to kill Jesus solely because he was some poor peasant wondering around claiming he was God. Any town anywhere has those among their number who are delusional in thinking they ware God in some fashion. Usually they are laughed at but otherwise left alone.
What got us their Jewish noses was that Jesus claimed the Jews were so arrogant and self-righteous that they could only think it was the nation of Israel that was so special to God and everyone else was condemned.
I don't think this is accurate. The Jewish leaders got ill because many of their people were believing that Jesus was the Messiah. They had to face the fact that their own people were accepting Him as God AND Jesus was claiming to be God. Both His claim to deity and the public recognition of such by the Jewish people (albiet not the Jewish leaders) are historical facts documented in Scripture.
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For God did not send his Son into to the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him (John 3:17)
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20th November 2009, 09:00 PM
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Reps: 416,617,700,174,524,864 (power: 416,617,700,174,543) | | Originally Posted by wayseer That reply is both simplistic and fails to address the broader cultural issues. It is also fundamentalist and designed to end any discussion - which I do at this point.
Imagine the Bible actually meaning what it says.
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dir="ltr"> "Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
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21st November 2009, 03:28 AM
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Reps: 294,981,184,141,909,888 (power: 294,981,184,141,920) | | Originally Posted by Jeffwhosoever I don't think this is accurate. The Jewish leaders got ill because many of their people were believing that Jesus was the Messiah. They had to face the fact that their own people were accepting Him as God AND Jesus was claiming to be God. Both His claim to deity and the public recognition of such by the Jewish people (albiet not the Jewish leaders) are historical facts documented in Scripture.
Are they? I remain unconvinced. Jesus does call himself God or that he is the Son of God or makes any overt claim to deity.
Further, where is it stated that the Jews in any sort of numbers were 'accepting ' Jesus as the Messiah? Some may have - the disciples had problems making that connection.
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21st November 2009, 11:06 AM
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Reps: 4,469,601,123,595,931,136 (power: 4,469,601,123,595,947) | | Originally Posted by wayseer Are they? I remain unconvinced. Jesus does call himself God or that he is the Son of God or makes any overt claim to deity.
Further, where is it stated that the Jews in any sort of numbers were 'accepting ' Jesus as the Messiah? Some may have - the disciples had problems making that connection.
John 6:14 - in reference to feeding of the 5,000
When the people saw him do this miraculous sign, they exclaimed, "Surely, he is the Prophet we have been expecting!" (NIV)
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For God did not send his Son into to the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him (John 3:17)
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