. RE: your exegesis, which is quite extensive might I add
So now you're criticizing me for being, in your opinion, too wordy?
It is my personal conviction that if a man doesn't believe himself qualified to speak comprehensively for God on a world-wide internet Christian forum; then he needs to sit down, shut up; and keep his opinions to himself.
†. 1Pet 4:11 . . If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God
RE: Who was the judge?
You'll have to first tell me what you're talking about before I can decide whether or not to go to the trouble of composing a reply to your question.
C.L.I.F.F.
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Last edited by Webers_Home; 17th November 2009 at 10:59 AM.
. RE: your exegesis, which is quite extensive might I add
So now you're criticizing me for being, in your opinion, too wordy?
It is my personal conviction that if a man doesn't believe himself qualified to speak comprehensively for God on a world-wide internet Christian forum; then he needs to sit down, shut up; and keep his opinions to himself.
†. 1Pet 4:11 . . If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God
RE: Who was the judge?
You'll have to first tell me what you're talking about before I can decide whether or not to go to the trouble of composing a reply to your question.
C.L.I.F.F.
/
First off, I was not criticizing you for lengthy exegesis, I believe that in your expression of thought you have actively sought out the council of God, not merely one verse or two, but the whole council. Not one of your exegesis have I found to begin with "I think" or "I feel", so for that I commend you.
Second off, by asking the question of who is the Judge, I am referring Jesus stating that He, referring to his position in the Godhead, is seeking mercy and if we knew what that meant we would not condemn those who are not guilty.
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. RE: I was not criticizing you for lengthy exegesis,
Sorry about the negative reaction. It's just that I get so much opposition all the time on internet Christian forums that I've come to expect it as a matter of course.
. RE: I was not criticizing you for lengthy exegesis,
Sorry about the negative reaction. It's just that I get so much opposition all the time on internet Christian forums that I've come to expect it as a matter of course.
C.L.I.F.F.
/
Haha, if you look at some of my posts I believe they can even be longer than yours sometimes, but it is important to put together clear thoughts and sometimes that can take a while. I find it rather refreshing that somebody actually uses the Bible to discern their viewpoints from, as this is the Council of God, good for all areas of our lives.
I like engaging people in scripture, this removes me from the equation, and it becomes God speaking to them not me, and trust me sometimes I can be a mess inside because as Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace but a sword, and that sword will constantly be at work separating flesh from spirit. Sometimes I will press a matter to see how somebody develops their viewpoint, to see if the Sword is at work in them also, if it is then I will listen, because then the voice of the Good Shepard will be heard.
Peace brother!
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As Christians our obligation is to live our own lives in such a way that if 'the state' looks our way, it will see actions that are not deserving of death. It is neither our right nor our privilege to tell 'the state' that it must obey us, and do only what we approve of. Their obligation is to God, not us.
As Christians our obligation is to live our own lives in such a way that if 'the state' looks our way, it will see actions that are not deserving of death. It is neither our right nor our privilege to tell 'the state' that it must obey us, and do only what we approve of. Their obligation is to God, not us.
We should live lives that bring no condemnation on ourselves, so that if the state does condemn us they are seen for the corruption and ultimately punished.
We have a voice in this country, one that allows for us to not be part of the nation but still mold it into something that does good things. We would be foolish and wicked servants to not use what God has given us.
You're right - Thou Shalt Not Kill is the rule.
If we had the death penalty here in England we would have executed dozens of innocent people in the 1970s and 1980s
Does Jesus' life and teaching demonstrate that there is a better way than 'an eye for eye, a tooth for a tooth', a way that involves redemption and restoration, or should we continue to pander to ancient, and scripturally overridden, codes of justice?
Actually, it was Jesus who instituted capital punishment in the first place.
But let's get sepecific. Do you think everyone executed is actually guilty of the alleged crime? In many nations in the world, without the rigorous legal system in the States, a trial is a formality. And even in the States, it seems likely that the odd innocent is put to death.
So, if you support the death penalty, you are supporting the execution of innocent people. Seems a lot like murder to me. Or do you think that, on balance, it is better that a few innocent people get executed providing a lot of guilty people also die?
Irrelevant. The issue isn't who is guilty and who is not, but whether or not capital punishment is consistent with the teachings of Christ.
[quote=Emmy] Dear 2ndRateMind. I don`t know about a better way, I believe the death penalty is preferable to a long incarceration. Yet I cannot resist pointing out that a quick death is most cruel and depriving the criminal of REPENTANCE, which is against Jesus`s " love for your enemies". The worst sinner should be given a chance to repent, and ask God`s Forgiveness. Life behind bars and realising the utter Evil committed, is a deserved punishment. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ. [/quote]
Yeah, because God wasn’t smart enough to take that into account when He instituted the death penalty.The book of Romans is very clear that no man will be able to claim they never had a chance to repent when they stand before God.
Originally Posted by ceh85
'Thou shalt not kill' seems pretty clear to me.
...Which is ironic, since the verse doesn’t say that.
Even if those people are guilty, it doesn't make it right for us to murder them.
We’re not talking about murder. We’re talking about capital punishment. Please try to keep up.
[quote]That is what the death penalty is, institutionalised murder, and in my opinion it doesn't make sense: that person killed someone, therefore we will kill them as well?[/quote]
Actually, it isn’t murder. The Bible defines murder as man taking God’s authority to take life upon himself and killing another human being outside of God’s authority. Because God has instituted and ordained capital punishment, it is, by definition, NOT murder.
That’s why the Bible doesn’t use the word commonly translated as “murder”, ratsach, to refer to capital punishment, killing in warfare, or killing in self defense
[quote]That is 'eye for an eye' and as Christians we are taught there is a better way.[/quote]
Really? Who teaches a better way than God’s way?
Last edited by Bro_Sam; 16th January 2010 at 06:03 PM.
You've been reading that darned OT again. It should carry a health warning, I think. Along the lines of: 'This text can seriously damage your moral stature'.
But let's get sepecific. Do you think everyone executed is actually guilty of the alleged crime? In many nations in the world, without the rigorous legal system in the States, a trial is a formality. And even in the States, it seems likely that the odd innocent is put to death.
So, if you support the death penalty, you are supporting the execution of innocent people. Seems a lot like murder to me. Or do you think that, on balance, it is better that a few innocent people get executed providing a lot of guilty people also die?
Best wishes, 2RM.
__________________ Philosophy is questions that may never be answered: Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
Anon, quoted in 'Breaking the Spell', by Daniel Dennet.
You've been reading that darned OT again. It should carry a health warning, I think. Along the lines of: 'This text can seriously damage your moral stature'.
But let's get sepecific. Do you think everyone executed is actually guilty of the alleged crime? In many nations in the world, without the rigorous legal system in the States, a trial is a formality. And even in the States, it seems likely that the odd innocent is put to death.
So, if you support the death penalty, you are supporting the execution of innocent people. Seems a lot like murder to me. Or do you think that, on balance, it is better that a few innocent people get executed providing a lot of guilty people also die?
Best wishes, 2RM.
Maybe that is whty God originally invoked the death penalty for bearing false witness. I wonder how trials would go if the witnesses and, especially, the lawyers were afraid for their lives to lie in court. I'll bet we would see a lot more truth in the legal system.
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