The dead where are they certainly not in heavan

dies-l · #41 19th November 2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by stelow

I don't even understand what revrob is talking about: "as far as dead believers are concerened they are in Paradise." With a reference to this scripture.

Luke 23:43, "Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be WITH ME in paradise."

What don't you understand? I don't claim to know what "paradise" is. Some Christians believe that it is heaven. Some believe that it is something distinct from heaven. Jesus wasn't entirely clear on that point (which seems to suggest that it is not all that important). It is interesting, however, that Scripture never says anything about anyone ever going to heaven. OTOH, Revelation 21 speaks of God coming down from heaven to make him home among believers. Most of the proof texts in the NT used to promote the many particular views of personal eschatology (not the least of which is 1 Cor. 15) can be reconciled with this understanding.

What happens between our physical death and the final resurrection? Scripture is not clear. But, since our temporal existence (that aspect of us that is constrained by time) ceases upon our physical death, is it really all that important, or is it even safe to assume that there is an interim period to be experienced? I tend to doubt it.

NatalieJan777 · #42 19th November 2009, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by stelow

I never said it did say the dead are in heaven, that's what you're saying, I said. I know what the scriptures say, unless you're a psychic, there would be no way for you to know how I understand those scriptures, because I only quoted the scriptures, I never gave a private interpretation of them.
Maybe you are someone who's about being right and showing others that they are wrong; I would say that I agree with you about this topic, but for some reason, I think you would find some reason to disagree with that.

Originally Posted by stelow
1Thessalonians 4:13-16
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Originally Posted by roshan turner
That scripture does not say any about the dead being in heaven thats talking about christ second coming why do you not understand when it said those that are asleep ? asleep mean they are not alive hear what jesus said mark:5-v35-39

roshan turner is simply telling you that the words used by Paul "those who fall asleep" and "greive like the rest of man who have no hope" are those souls whom are Dead by their unbelief in the only true and living GOD.

For Jesus speaks truth when he says to the Jews, GOD is not the GOD of the dead but the GOD of the living. For it is only those who believe (Faith) in HIM that have salvation through CHRIST JESUS.

If your qoute has nothing to do with the topic, why post it?

roshan turner · #43 19th November 2009, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by NatalieJan777

Originally Posted by stelow
1Thessalonians 4:13-16
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Originally Posted by roshan turner
That scripture does not say any about the dead being in heaven thats talking about christ second coming why do you not understand when it said those that are asleep ? asleep mean they are not alive hear what jesus said mark:5-v35-39

roshan turner is simply telling you that the words used by Paul "those who fall asleep" and "greive like the rest of man who have no hope" are those souls whom are Dead by their unbelief in the only true and living GOD.

For Jesus speaks truth when he says to the Jews, GOD is not the GOD of the dead but the GOD of the living. For it is only those who believe (Faith) in HIM that have salvation through CHRIST JESUS.

If your qoute has nothing to do with the topic, why post it?

Now you just lied on me stelow that not true the dead are in the grave not in heaven read job:14v12-15 john :5v25-28 now whos voice will the dead hear ? the thief is not with jesus now jesus will sit on david throne 1 chronicles17v1-4 <11-15 luke :1v31-33 now the thief said to jesus thy kingdom jesus kingdom is not here yet read: rev3v21 jesus does not have his throne yet hes waiting

stelow · #44 19th November 2009, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by NatalieJan777

Originally Posted by stelow
1Thessalonians 4:13-16
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Originally Posted by roshan turner
That scripture does not say any about the dead being in heaven thats talking about christ second coming why do you not understand when it said those that are asleep ? asleep mean they are not alive hear what jesus said mark:5-v35-39

roshan turner is simply telling you that the words used by Paul "those who fall asleep" and "greive like the rest of man who have no hope" are those souls whom are Dead by their unbelief in the only true and living GOD.

For Jesus speaks truth when he says to the Jews, GOD is not the GOD of the dead but the GOD of the living. For it is only those who believe (Faith) in HIM that have salvation through CHRIST JESUS.

If your qoute has nothing to do with the topic, why post it?

Originally Posted by roshan turner

Now you just lied on me stelow that not true the dead are in the grave not in heaven read job:14v12-15 john :5v25-28 now whos voice will the dead hear ? the thief is not with jesus now jesus will sit on david throne 1 chronicles17v1-4 <11-15 luke :1v31-33 now the thief said to jesus thy kingdom jesus kingdom is not here yet read: rev3v21 jesus does not have his throne yet hes waiting

I knew it, I didn't make that post NatalieJan did, unsubscribing and I will never post again in one of your threads, unless I see a change in your attitude toward other members on CF.

roshan turner · #45 19th November 2009, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by stelow

I knew it, I didn't make that post NatalieJan did, unsubscribing and I will never post again in one of your threads, unless I see a change in your attitude toward other members on CF.

you are a brother to me in this not a foe

stelow · #46 20th November 2009, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by NatalieJan777

Originally Posted by stelow
1Thessalonians 4:13-16
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

If your qoute has nothing to do with the topic, why post it?

Why would you want to post behind every post I make and give me grief about it and how would it be your job to explain me what roshan turner is saying, isn't he capable of doing that for himself? IMHO the scriptures I quoted was very relevant to the OP's thread or I would not have posted them.

stelow · #47 20th November 2009, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by roshan turner

you are a brother to me in this not a foe

Thanks brother.

NatalieJan777 · #48 20th November 2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by stelow

Why would you want to post behind every post I make and give me grief about it and how would it be your job to explain me what roshan turner is saying, isn't he capable of doing that for himself? IMHO the scriptures I quoted was very relevant to the OP's thread or I would not have posted them.

You post scripture but don't edify as to why, thus leaving the reader confused about your intent. You do this quiet often.

If I interceeded incorrectly I appologies. Perhaps if you were clearer and didn't get defensive about things, discussion would be more productive?

In anycase, I appologize for my personal explaination of what I thought roshan turner was saying if I indeed was incorrect in my interpretation. I can tell by reading more of what he posts, that there is a language barrier or something perhaps, so I was just attempting to help, but it appears I have hindered more so now that I see that tempers have flared.

I appologies to you both.