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Unread 11th November 2009, 08:29 PM
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Is Gandhi going to hell?

people who dont believe in jesus are going to hell according to the bible. so i decided to pick the posterboy for peace...mohandas gandhi. he wasnt christian...so according to the christian tradition that kid in the video states...gandhi is going to hell...

true or false? comments, opinions are appreciated.
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Unread 11th November 2009, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JRFlow View Post
people who dont believe in jesus are going to hell according to the bible. so i decided to pick the posterboy for peace...mohandas gandhi. he wasnt christian...so according to the christian tradition that kid in the video states...gandhi is going to hell...

true or false? comments, opinions are appreciated.
He prolly followed Jesus' sermon on the mount more than most christians ever follow Jesus, so I don't think that Ghandi will lose rewards. After all he claimed to like the christian God, just not christians.
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Unread 11th November 2009, 08:34 PM
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If he did not repent and acknowledge Jesus and become washed by His blood then yes. If he did, and walked the walk, then no he wouldn't.

But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Romans 10:10
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Unread 11th November 2009, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by flightofsevens View Post
Unless he repented and acknowledged Jesus and became washed by His blood then yes. If he did, and walked the walk, then no he wouldn't.

But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Romans 10:10
If following Jesus' prescibed Way isn't acknowledging Him then I don't know what is.
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Unread 11th November 2009, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Evangelica View Post
If following Jesus' prescibed Way isn't acknowledging Him then I don't know what is.
I don't really know much about him nor do I really care, I know who my Teacher is.

Since I don't know much about him, my answer was just a straightforward: "If he was washed in the blood then no he wont go to Hell." As this applies to all human kind, thus is my answer. If he was not... well... you cannot win your way into Heaven by works. And I am not getting into that debate if you don't think the sacrifice of Jesus is and accepting that sacrifice is all you need, as the Word says.
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Unread 11th November 2009, 09:40 PM
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If he goes to heaven, it will be because Jesus made it possible. It is only because of Jesus that any of us who have been stained by sin can hope to have fellowship with a holy God. Only God truly knows where each of us stands in relationship to Him. People only see what is on the surface; God sees the heart. He will make sure that anybody who truly loves Him will be able to spend eternity with Him.

We all do have the option of rejecting God. Those who reject God will not be forced to spend eternity with Him. If we wish to go our own way, God allows us to, even if it ultimately leads us to eternal separation from Him. Everyone gets to make their own choice.
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Unread 11th November 2009, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by max1120 View Post
So your god throws people into everlasting torment simply because the do not believe in him? Even though he provides no solid evidence of his existence much less "proof". The bible itself is riddled with mistranslations and things which have been added and subtracted over the centuries. Given all of this, god still throws you off into the abyis for not believing in him? I doubt that but of course I am sure you will disagree. I find it frighning to think that one would choose to worship a god who would torture people for ever and ever with fire simply because they did not believe in him given the scant evidence of his existence which he allowed them to view. Such a god would not be worthy of worship, fear yes, worship never. He would be a very cruel and abusive god. He would likely be what we would classify as narcissitic and meglamanial. Those are not good qualities for a leader, let alone a god.
I find your faith (or lack thereof) frightening. Either you believe in the Bible or you don't. I have rock-solid proof of His existence. I see it on a regular basis. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God. There may minor mis-translations, but for content, it is the perfect Word.

God does not "throw you off into the abyss" for not believing in Him. He gives man a choice - live a righteous life and go to heaven. Sin and go to hell. We choose our own destination. Jesus gives us a chance we don't deserve - He gives us, as an unearned gift, His righteousness if we ask, and we follow Him.

I don't understand all God does, but if I did, He'd be a dang pitiful example of a god. He does expect our respect, reverence, fear and worship. Is that narcissistic? Well, it would be, if it weren't deserved. If He were anyone and anything but God, then yes, it would be the attitude of a megalomaniac. Don't you get it?

It isn't that He feels a need for our worship. HE DESERVES IT. He deserves more praise and worship than we could ever give Him, even if we were to worship eternally. He deserves our reverence. And He will have it.

When even unbelievers see Him, their automatic response will be worship. And while it sounds humiliating, it is actually the most exciting, peaceful thing I've ever done. God's sanity is insanity to us; but it is true sanity.

As for Gandhi, I refuse to try to guess the state of his spirit. It is not my position to judge his life. I leave such things to God. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." Did Gandhi do this? Only he and God know.
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Unread 12th November 2009, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JRFlow View Post
people who dont believe in jesus are going to hell according to the bible. so i decided to pick the posterboy for peace...mohandas gandhi. he wasnt christian...so according to the christian tradition that kid in the video states...gandhi is going to hell...

true or false? comments, opinions are appreciated.

Gandhi was a complicated man, in a sense, and very sophisticated in communication. So, many people misunderstand his statements or throw out the context.

I find discussing the matter only leads to controversy, people can decide for themselves whether Gandhi was "really" a believer in Christ or not even if he eschewed the draping of the word "Christian".

People also have to remember a lot of luminary Christians have had severe moral failings. Sleeping around, intermittent alcoholism, and so on. This is common especially with people in extremely stressful situations such as world leaders. For instance, JFK, Martin Luther King Jr, Winston Churchill, and the like.


I do believe mercy and sophistication in understanding people is required foremost when attempting to be the judge and jury of some famous figure whom you never knew personally.

Further, historical records of sophisticated famous people tend to be extremely biased and blurred because people around them never understood them... all to often. They become more fiction then fact.

They are made into myths. Marred.

As the saying goes, "everyone is a critic". Too often, not for their own self.
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Unread 12th November 2009, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stormdancer0 View Post
I find your faith (or lack thereof) frightening. Either you believe in the Bible or you don't. I have rock-solid proof of His existence. I see it on a regular basis. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God. There may minor mis-translations, but for content, it is the perfect Word.

First of all I doubt you have "rock solid" evidence of gods exsistence. No one has "rock solid" evidence or the existence or non-exsistence of any diety.

Secondly, I am afraid its a little more serious than a few "minor mis-translations". what we today call the bible is filled with errors and has indeed been translated incorrectly but also men have added to it and subtracted from it over the centuries. One excellent example is the last 12 verses of Mark's Gospel. Those twelve (12) verses simply are not present in any of the 4 earliest copies of Mark we have today. They suddenly appear in latter copies. Since we are dealing with copies of copies of copies ( none of the the origional "autographs" currently are known to exist) it is entirely possible that even more was added earlier. There are a number of similar examples of where things in the bible have been added or changed but this is just one really glaring example.

God does not "throw you off into the abyss" for not believing in Him. He gives man a choice - live a righteous life and go to heaven. Sin and go to hell. We choose our own destination. Jesus gives us a chance we don't deserve - He gives us, as an unearned gift, His righteousness if we ask, and we follow Him.

Your version of god does not give man a "choice". Think about it do you really think people voluntarily would burn for all eternaity? of corse not! No one would volunteer for such torture. Their decision to not believe his exsistence is based upon thier view of his exsistence and the limited factual evidence presented to support it. Even though I do believe in his existence i can certainly say I see where others would have great difficulty with the concept. It is not as if they are being asked to believe in the existence of Mexico or Canada, those are far more tangable things, they are being asked to believe in something unknowable (given the limited data).

I don't understand all God does, but if I did, He'd be a dang pitiful example of a god. He does expect our respect, reverence, fear and worship. Is that narcissistic? Well, it would be, if it weren't deserved. If He were anyone and anything but God, then yes, it would be the attitude of a megalomaniac. Don't you get it?

No again you are incorrect. God like any leader is judged ultimately by how he treats his subjects. If his demands are viewed as reasonable and if his treatment of is them is considered fair and just. These are relitive concepts and they evolve over time and differ between civilizations. Extreeme autocratic rulers are usually not very popular and do not attract many willing followers, followers are usually only obtained by force of arms and coversive tactics. If i asked for all of your money nicely I most likely would be told no. However ending up broke sounds much better if I throw you into a dungon to be tortured. If his only means of obtaining his desires is force than he is a despot and likely a narcisstic meglamanic. According to your beliefs he only gets what he wants under durress, by compelling people under the threat of hell to do what he wishes them to do. Thats why I reject that concept of god. I reject the concept of a god who throws people off into an abyss simply because they did not believe in him or did not to the letter follow his teachings (even if it was done with intent to not follow him). If on the other hand you were correct about the nature of god It would be in my opinion our (all sane peoples) to oppose him as we would any brutish dictator.

It isn't that He feels a need for our worship. HE DESERVES IT. He deserves more praise and worship than we could ever give Him, even if we were to worship eternally. He deserves our reverence. And He will have it.

A ruler deserves praise only if he is just. No ruler (god) could justify the kind of duress you ascribe to your version of god. That view of god holds that people are tortured for all eternity simply because they saw the weight of evidence agaisnt gods existence and did not accept the teachings of christianity. Also any ruler who believed he "desreved" worship in spite of such brutish behavour would have shown him/herself to be narcisstic.

When even unbelievers see Him, their automatic response will be worship. And while it sounds humiliating, it is actually the most exciting, peaceful thing I've ever done. God's sanity is insanity to us; but it is true sanity.

If "even unbelievers" would have the "automatic response" to worship him when they see him, how cruel it would be to then toss them off to hell fire since the only reason they did not "worship" him before was thier lack of belief in his existence. That only sounds logical. "Gods sanity is insanity to us, but it is true sanity". I have heard things similar to this uttered by people locked away in mental wards. They also claim to have an understanding of "ture sanity" never mind that they slaughtered an entire family, it was sane...to them and only them. That statement almost sounds delousional. My god does not requrie endless praise for the sake of praise.

As for Gandhi, I refuse to try to guess the state of his spirit. It is not my position to judge his life. I leave such things to God. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." Did Gandhi do this? Only he and God know.

The god I believe in would not send Gandi to hell simply because of his beliefs.
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Unread 12th November 2009, 10:06 PM
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First of all I doubt you have "rock solid" evidence of gods exsistence. No one has "rock solid" evidence or the existence or non-exsistence of any diety.

I do have proof. Look around you. You can't honestly say that you believe that this entire world, the entire universe, just "happened." That requires much more faith than belief in any God. I also have proof in the changes He's made in me; the miracles I've personally seen. For someone who doesn't want to believe in God, there is no proof good enough. For someone who has experienced Him, they have the proof they need. These are rock solid evidence to me. If you choose not to believe them, that's on you.

Secondly, I am afraid its a little more serious than a few "minor mis-translations". what we today call the bible is filled with errors and has indeed been translated incorrectly but also men have added to it and subtracted from it over the centuries. One excellent example is the last 12 verses of Mark's Gospel. Those twelve (12) verses simply are not present in any of the 4 earliest copies of Mark we have today. They suddenly appear in latter copies. Since we are dealing with copies of copies of copies ( none of the the origional "autographs" currently are known to exist) it is entirely possible that even more was added earlier. There are a number of similar examples of where things in the bible have been added or changed but this is just one really glaring example.

So, name a few. Everyone knows that the 12 verses in Mark are not in the oldest copies that we have. What about the ones we don't have?

Name some mistranslations or errors. I have heard this accusation many times, but few if any have ever even read the Bible, much less researched and supposed errors. My God is more than big enough and influential enough to be sure that what He wants to stay in that book does stay. What a weak, non-effective god you serve, if He cannot do something so simple!


Your version of god does not give man a "choice". Think about it do you really think people voluntarily would burn for all eternaity? of corse not! No one would volunteer for such torture. Their decision to not believe his exsistence is based upon thier view of his exsistence and the limited factual evidence presented to support it.

No, that's where you're wrong. Their decision to not believe is based on the fact that if they admit there's a God, then they also have to admit that there is Someone bigger than they are. Someone they will have to answer to. This is one of the base problems of people today. They want to do whatever they want, with as few consequences and responsibilities as possible. That's why abortion is so prevalent. People have casual sex with anyone and everyone, then kill the results. Also, criminals are blaming childhood for their decisions. It's everyone's fault but the one who actually sinned. The courts are unfair. The police are racist. My parents were divorced. My parent's loved my brother more. I had too many twinkies. All excuses as to why someone sinned, but shouldn't have to deal with the consequences. The most basic - there is no God. We are all accidents of evolution. There is no absolute truth. Who are you to tell me what's right and wrong? Stealing may be wrong for you, but not for me! It's getting ridiculous.

Even though I do believe in his existence i can certainly say I see where others would have great difficulty with the concept. It is not as if they are being asked to believe in the existence of Mexico or Canada, those are far more tangable things, they are being asked to believe in something unknowable (given the limited data).


The data is only limited by your level of belief.

No again you are incorrect. God like any leader is judged ultimately by how he treats his subjects. If his demands are viewed as reasonable and if his treatment of is them is considered fair and just.

Uh, do you really dare to judge God? I am not a "subject" of God. I am His creation. He is the Potter. He is well within His rights to make me into a cup, a bowl, or even shatter me and re-make me into whatever He wants. He has chosen to consider me His daughter. For this I am forever grateful.

But I have to add, if God were not good, not loving, not merciful, He would still deserve every ounce of praise and worship I can offer Him, simply because of Who He is.

"Fair and just" in whose eyes? Is it "fair" to make a 2 year old go to bed at 7 when his 10 yr old brother doesn't have to go until 9? Not to the 2 yr old. He has no concept of sleep needs and age differences. Similarly, what seems "fair" to us is perfectly logical. To us. But there are things we don't understand. But our Father does. Sometimes I have to trust that He knows what He's doing.

So if God is viewed as unreasonable by man, we can judge Him? Who's reason? Mine? Yours? Gandhi's? Jeffery Dahmer's?

These are relitive concepts and they evolve over time and differ between civilizations. Extreeme autocratic rulers are usually not very popular and do not attract many willing followers, followers are usually only obtained by force of arms and coversive tactics. If i asked for all of your money nicely I most likely would be told no. However ending up broke sounds much better if I throw you into a dungon to be tortured.

true. But you are not God. If God asked me to give you everything, I would. God doesn't threaten hell. He has simply told us of that reality. Everyone has sinned. Everyone has earned a place in hell. There is no one perfect, except Jesus. He has chosen to save those who love and obey Him. It is by His mercy that the entire human race doesn't self-destruct. I am walking towards God, away from Hell. But even if I were to receive what I truly deserve - hell - I would still follow God. He is WORTHY of my devotion, regardless of the outcome. The fact that He has saved me from hell is almost beside the point. The point is, heaven or hell aside, God is worthy of our worship.

There are actually few relatives. There are far more absolutes than most want to admit. God is absolutely good. He has absolute power, all authority, all knowledge, and owns all things. Including us.

If his only means of obtaining his desires is force than he is a despot and likely a narcisstic meglamanic. According to your beliefs he only gets what he wants under durress, by compelling people under the threat of hell to do what he wishes them to do.

I don't know anyone who came to God out of a fear of Hell. It is not hell that chases us to Him. His love woos us, calls to us. All we want to do is worship Him. What He wants is to walk with us, fellowship with us, love us. But He is so pure, He cannot stand being in the presence of sin. So He sent Jesus to save us. If He were as dictatorial as you seem to think, would He have died in order to rescue us? Of course not. He would have wiped us all out and started all over. He loves us.

Thats why I reject that concept of god. I reject the concept of a god who throws people off into an abyss simply because they did not believe in him or did not to the letter follow his teachings (even if it was done with intent to not follow him). If on the other hand you were correct about the nature of god It would be in my opinion our (all sane peoples) to oppose him as we would any brutish dictator.


He has come here, died, rose again, warned us time and time again of the dangers of living for our own selfish desires. But He gave us free will, and He will not prevent you from walking off a cliff that He has shown you over and over again. If you choose to walk into hell when He's there offering you heaven, that is YOUR decision, not His. From what you say, you must think that everyone goes to heaven. So I have to walk the streets with Hitler? With Manson, Dahmer, Hussien, Ben Laden? No way.

A ruler deserves praise only if he is just. No ruler (god) could justify the kind of duress you ascribe to your version of god. That view of god holds that people are tortured for all eternity simply because they saw the weight of evidence agaisnt gods existence and did not accept the teachings of christianity. Also any ruler who believed he "desreved" worship in spite of such brutish behavour would have shown him/herself to be narcisstic.

God does not believe He deserves worship. He DOES deserve it. He made you, gave you everything you have, including your next heartbeat and breath. Do you have food? Clothing? Shelter? Yes, you may have worked for those, but who gave you that ability? My husband would love to be able to go back to work, but 20 strokes has made that impossible. He has given so much to you and me. He even gave Himself. What more do you want?

If "even unbelievers" would have the "automatic response" to worship him when they see him, how cruel it would be to then toss them off to hell fire since the only reason they did not "worship" him before was thier lack of belief in his existence. That only sounds logical.

Let's see. I believe in God, though I've never seen Him. Therefore, I love Him, I live for Him, and worship Him through faith. My neighbor has heard the Gospel, but chooses not to believe. He lives only for himself, drugging, whoring, abusive. He has faith only in what he can see and touch and prove. So when we both die, we both see God as He is, we both worship, and God should treat us the same?

Yeah, I can see how your way is much fairer than His.


My god does not requrie endless praise for the sake of praise.


Neither does mine. I choose to offer endless praise because of my great love of Him, and because He deserves it. And no, God doesn't make human sense sometimes. So what? It's like trying to ask a slug to explain quantum physics. Just because it can't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The god I believe in would not send Gandi to hell simply because of his beliefs.

I am fully aware that the god you believe in would not send anyone to hell because of his beliefs. Unfortunately, your god is not the one who will be making that decision. It is Yahweh, the God of the Bible, who will decide. And His requirements are well-known.
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