More than one resurrection?

Rev. 20:6 (KJV)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Resurrection: anastasis,an-as'-tas-is; from Greek 450 (anistemi); a standing up again, i.e. (literal) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive or by implication [its author]), or (figurative) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth) :- raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
Anistemi,an-is'-tay-mee; from Greek 303 (ana) and Greek 2476 (histemi); to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive) :- arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up (-right).
Lets compare this to what Apostle Paul wrote;
1 Thes. 4:17 (KJV)
Then we, which are alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Caught up: harpazo,har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of Greek 138 (haireomai); to seize in various applications :- catch away, up, pluck, pull, take by force.

Sort of close…arise, lift up, raise up, rise up, stand up… but not at all the same in complete action…seize in various applications, catch away, up, pluck, pull, take by force.
Apostle John did not say
Rev. 20:6 (KJV)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first harpazo: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
He said:
Rev. 20:6 (KJV)
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first anastasis/anistemi: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Let’s all make special note of what Apostle Paul also said…

#1
1 Thes. 4:15-18 (KJV)
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord
Lord Jesus told him this

#2 and this is the kicker:
“That we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord”

We, which are alive and remain…
Every single solitary soul that comes with Lord Jesus in Rev 20 have been martyred “and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, for the word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands”
NOT one single shred of anyone here being resurrected who are alive and remain… you cannot resurrect someone who is alive and remains…

#3
Verse 16 “The dead in Christ shall rise first”
No explanation needed


#4
Verse 17 Then we, who are alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them

We who alive and remain, shall be harpazo together with them…
Same action, same time…
Harpazo is not some interchangeable Greek street slang for anastasis or anistemi.

#5

Verse 17…“Shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air

Shall be harpazo (not anastasis or anistemi) together with them in the clouds…

Not crowds…
Clouds: nephele,nef-el'-ay; from Greek 3509 (nephos); properly cloudiness, i.e. (concrete) a cloud: - cloud.
This is not some metaphor; a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them.
Nephele is not some Greek street slang for great miltitude polus ochlos,

#6

Verse 17… “So shall we ever be with the Lord”

And finally
#7
Verse 18
“Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

What words?
What words, the words that Holy Spirit, Who knew the words that Apostle Paul was going to write down
What words did Apostle Paul use to describe this one single action that he said was directly from the Lord?
This scene of a Word of Wisdom, future event that he wrote to the Thessalonians…


Did he say great multitude? Not even one time.

Why not?
Is this the same thing that he was talking about to the Corinthians when he did in fact use resurrection in verse 42?

Lets look at this and see… the easy, simple none man wisdom, no theory way and see if it is?
1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

“Dead shall rise…”

Lets define the word “rise” anistemi,an-is'-tay-mee; from Greek 303 (ana) and Greek 2476 (histemi); to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive) :- arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up (-right).
There it is…so the dead in Christ are resurrected

Then what…?
1 Thes. 4:17 (KJV)
Then we, which are alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

A resurrection and a harpazo at almost the same time, back to back, in the same event is what is being told to the believers in Thessalonica…

Ok the one thing that we need to come to agreement on is this single part called the “last trump” that Apostle Paul mentions in I Cor 15…

That could mean more than one thing and it might be that it is the literal “last trump” or it could be the “last trump” for the gentiles…He was writing the Gentiles correct? Or…

Is Holy Spirit the same GOD of Apostle John?

Did He give specific directions to Apostle John as what to write down as well?

IF Apostle John saw people who were alive and remained in Rev 20 he would have mentioned them, he did not do so…
He clearly identifies anyone and everyone, be it the Beings, the Elders or any other that are in whatever he is seeing. He does not miss a skip and even when he was once about to write something down that he heard; he was told to not write it…He does not say anything about anyone who is “alive and remains” in Rev 20…
So who ever it is that is placing all of us in Revelation 20 as being harpazoed and resurrected together with the souls of them, which were beheaded, and that the “harpazo” also takes place in Rev 20, are not correct and need to look again …

We will be in one of several groups that do in fact go with GOD.

We are either dead in Christ, which will be resurrected with the “harpazo” group and we go to heaven…

The above and below statements are the same group.

We are either alive and remain and are “harpazoed” with those who get resurrected before us and we go with Lord Jesus. (The Red Moon Harpazo)…

We either are the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, for the testimony, which they held:

OF which thee above souls in Rev 6 can also be included with the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, for the word of God, which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands
BUT never could the ones who are alive and remain be included in either of these last two groups unless they meet the being slain (martyred) or beheaded (martyred) mandate…
And NONE of us could ever be confused with one the 144,000

The “first resurrection” that is being written about in Rev 20 is the first resurrection after the Great Tribulation and should not be confused with the resurrection and harpazo that takes place during the consequences of the 6th seal…

They are TWO entirely different groups of people.

We do not ALL share in the same types of service to GOD Almighty…

Not here and not later

One group goes before the throne of GOD (see Rev 7).

One rules with Lord Jesus during the 1,000 year Sabbath.(see Rev 20)

The 144,000 do an entirely different service unto our God…(See Rev 7 and beyond)

Each and every one of these groups is the Body of Christ, not all of them are feet and not all of them are an eye, ear or nose…

Each specific group serves GOD Almighty according to where they are given to serve.

I Thess. 4 and Rev. 20 are two entirely different events and groups of peoples

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The saints come down from heaven as "armies" but then only one of those armies had yet to gain their own victory over the beast. This one army will sit down after Armageddon and then be joined by the other army (the trib saints) that already had victory over the beast.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many...shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28
So would you agree that Jesus is coming when the saints get salvation?

If so, then look at what is said at the start of Rev. 19.

19:1
"...much people in heaven, saying...Salvation..."
What else happens about this time?
for -as in because
verse 2
"For...he hath judged the great whore which did corrupt the earth..."
as in the great tribulation time is over


1Thess. 5:9
"...to obtain salvation...."
shows the church is here till the moment when salvation begins\

1Peter 1:7
"...your faith...at the appearing..."
9: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Jesus appears when the church gets salvation

Vinsight4u,

excellent posts using scripture to back up your belief.

hismessenger

The next time that Jesus returns what will the wicked be doing?
They will be saying. peace and safey.
So we know this is not timed to be for Armageddon. The wicked are not in a mode of peace at the battle time of Rev. 19.
The wicked have gathered for war.

Okay, now think about the scene when the two witnesses rise from the dead. The wicked had been sending gifts to each other.

There is the peace and safety party time that Jesus will come on as a thief.

Yes, there are 2 resurrections: the resurrection of the martyrs in Rev. 20:4 (coming soon), and the resurrection of everyone else a thousand years later (Rev. 20:11-15)

__________________

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"The proof of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" Revelation 19:10

Thanks. Are you seeing too that the rapture is set to occur at about the start of Rev. 19's picture?

Rev. 19:1
"And after these things.."
This mean Johns is starting a new vision part. This message is not to link up with the one that ended in the previous chapter.

19:1
"....I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying....Salvation..."
Why?
"For...he hath judged the great whore which did corrupt the earth...'
It would be impossible for the tribulation to occur any time after this point, because the wicked city is avenged.
The city of mystery, Babylon that was shown to John in chapter 17.

19:5
"...all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great."

Malachi 3:16
"Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another; and the LORD hearkened, and heard...and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name."
verse 17
"And they shall be mine, saith the LORD...when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him,"

After this in chapter 19, we find the marriage, and the white fine linen outfits are granted to the saints.

v7
"....rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come..."
v8
"...she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white...of saints."
So the saints have all returned to heaven with Jesus. All of the risen from the dead saints outfits quickly get given away (so to speak). If anyone were to die as a saint after this point - they would be left naked as there are not any more clothes for good dead people.

Jesus must come back again. The saints will come in their new outfits for the battle.

v 11
"And I saw heaven opened,...a white horse...sat upon him...in righteousness..."
v14
"And the armies...in heaven followed him...clothed in fine linen. white and clean."
Jesus and the saints as "armies".
Why aren't the saints all in one army as they leave heaven? ///Because the saints are divided up into two groups.
1>those that were not maryted during the time of the beast
2>and those - that already had victory over the beast

armies left heaven
in their fine outfits

v19
"....him that sat on the horse and his army."
army - only one particular bunch

This same bunch is found mentioned in chapter 20 as "they".
20:4
"...I saw thrones, and they sat...'
This is God's army that fought at Armageddon.

and
20:4.....continues to show us that the tribulation martyrs will join them to judge for the 1000 years.

Together this makes up the groups from the first resurrection.

20:5
"....This is the first resurrecton."


John chapter 5 shows there will only be one resurrection of the just.
v29
"And shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life..."
This done good group will come down from heaven as "armies", but only one of them needs to yet gain victory over the beast.


Acts 24:15
"And have hope toward God,...there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."
If ar person in the grave misses out at the time the just are raised, he will be left to be raised at the one for the unjust.

The martyrs join a group referred to as "they". This "they" is a link back to the army of saints that fought for God at the battle of chapter 19.

Rev. 19:4
"....they sat...and...the souls of them that were beheaded..."
Okay, now are they only then just being beheaded?
Or - is John just letting us know what has happened to the saints in the past?
John is just letting us know that the group that was beheaded and lived = back earlier in chapter 19 - joins the "they" group in the verse.

John is not telling us that now is when there is a resurrection - John is informing us that these two groups are from the first resurrection time.

"Blessed and holy is he that part in the first resurrection..."
John never speaks of any holy people in the second resurrection.

Nor does he say that anyone rising from this resurrecton time gets a new white outfit.

I'm going to repaet this verse under this thread - and then tie other verses to "His appearing".

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear...unto salvation."
Hebrews 9:28

So we need to think salvation time is His appearing time for the church.

"Beloved...when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is."
(1 John 3:2)

(2:28)
"...when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

Titus 2:13
"Looking for....the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

That glorious appearing should occur around the start of Rev. 19 when salvation is said.

1Thess. 5:9
"...not appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation."
The church is appointed to be still waiting on Jesus till the salvation time comes. He will then appear in glory.
The church will be in heaven before the start of the vials but return before they are over for the battle of Armageddon to be fought by Jesus and His had yet to gain victory over the beasts saints.

B1inHim

I saw you also mentioned 1 Cor. 15. Okay, what do you think as to this event that must also come to pass at the last trump?

v54
"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption...Death is swallowed up in victory.'

links from Isaiah 25
v8
"He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears off of all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth..."
v9
"And it shall be said...rejoice in his salvation."

With the last trumpet - people will still die - but not any longer will any of them be of the righteous type.
/Death that will end with a victorious outcome is over.

Isaiah 31:5
"As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem..."
v8
"Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword...but he shall flee..."
This Assyrian (Iraqi) will come against the Lord later at the battle of Armageddon.