So I'm home still sick and there's not a lot on to watch. So I just saw the tail end of the show Born In Wrong Body. Kind of scary. One could be hitting on a guy and it could have been a girl. Or vs versa. Does this bother anyone else?
It's a very interesting topic. And "weird" to be able to choose between being a man or a woman. If a birth certificate says male....how can they ever be recognized as a woman? Even if they look like a woman through surgery....aren't they always technically going to be male? In my mind, yes. You can act any way you want. You can do anything you want. But you're still the gender you were born with.
And people who marry transgender....how does that work? How do people work through that in their mind?
Just because someone may walk like a guy.....doesn't mean they aren't a women. We all have akward things about us.
Which also brings up the thought of what happens when a child is born and the doctors really can't tell if they are male or female....that would be a hard situation to be in as a parent.
Anyways....this can be a very strange topic....
I'll just make sure I ask for a birth certificate before I start dating
__________________ To man belong the plans of the heart, but from the LORD comes the reply of the tongue. All a man's ways seem innocent to him, but motives are weighed by the LORD. Commit to the LORD whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.The LORD works out everything for his own ends—even the wicked for a day of disaster. Prov 16
If we can be transgender, why not trans-species? What if I feel like, on the inside, I'm really a dolphin, even though on the outside I appear to be human? If technology is such that I can revamp my outside to look like my "inside," then why not?
The reason is, as you suggest, changing my appearance doesn't change the entirety of my identity... At least, technology has not yet gone so far as to allow a man to become a woman with the ability of child-birthing. Maybe some day.
__________________
...Do not let me hear
Of the wisdom of old men, but rather of their folly,
Their fear of fear and frenzy, their fear of possession, Of belonging to another, or to others, or to God. The only wisdom we can hope to acquire Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
Our gender is a sacred thing given to us by God. We cannot change that no matter how much surgery one goes through. Each gender equally bears the image of God and He gets to chose which one we will be, not us.
I would never personally date someone who was a man and chose to change their gender. I think that is defiling your body in one of the worst possible ways, refusing the gender that God gave you. It's so perverse.
Now I understand there are a couple rare, whacky cases, where children were "misidentified" at birth and operated on incorrectly, or cases where children are born with parts from both genders and things like that. In those situations, I truly feel bad for the children as they must have such a hard time with their identity, through no fault of their own. For the ones who changed their gender willingly though, I don't feel like I could ever understand or relate to them.
__________________ Revived: "There's just no counter-punch to love!"
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For the ones who changed their gender willingly though, I don't feel like I could ever understand or relate to them.
I cannot understand someone with GID, either. That does not, however, mean that I cannot relate to them. I know what it is to be different from all my peers, to not entirely fit in with the "guys," and to know that although I know that it is my genetics at fault, most people think it's all in my head. I have Asperger's, a form of AS (Autism Spectrum) condition. Asperger's is the most high-functioning version of AS, and is often accompanied by high intellegence and many "Aspies" seem almost normal, if somewhat nerdy.
While there are strategies that Aspies can learn to fit in a little better, there is no "cure." So yes, I can relate to those with GID.
That there is a procedure that allows someone with GID to live an almost perfectly normal life is a blessing for them and I, for one, am glad that it available to them. So what if it is "unnatural"? A lot of medical procedures were once considered "unnatural." For some religious sects (for example, Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses), the procedures, even simple ones such as blood transfusions, are still forbidden.
__________________ Do I claim that I am never wrong in what I've come to believe from my study of the Scriptures? Of course not. Then I would not be open to learning the truth when I still have so much more to learn. If I ever believed I knew all of God's truth, I'd be claiming to know the whole of God's mind -- I'd be, like Eve under the Serpent's influence, and like Nimrod, or whichever early king of Babel ordered the building of the Tower, and like the mad emperor Caligula, trying to become God
I haven't verified this myself, but I hear it's because the default gender of a human zygote is female until enough hormones develop to permanently fix one's gender. So everybody starts out as a girl.
I've also heard that it isn't plumbing that determines the gender of one's mentality, but again, the type of hormones produced by one's body and also the wiring in their brain.
Just yesterday I and my wife visited a science exhibit that focused on the amygdala pair, the little almond-shaped fear centers in one's brain. These same centers also control bladder and bowel function which explains why people sometimes wet their pants and/or experience an involuntary dump when they're terrified. Anyway, not everyone's amygdalae react to fear inducing situations the same way; which explains why some people are fearless and others timid. So then fearless people have no more to brag about than timid people since both were born that way.
In point of fact, I would have to say that fearless people are abnormal because it's the amygdalae's job to save your life and get you out of trouble rather than give you a green light to temp fate and take unnecessary chances. Monkeys with damaged amygdalae will see snakes and simply pick them up. They don’t perceive them as a danger. On the other hand, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) shows that people with hyperactive amygdalae are likely to have an anxiety disorder, where nonthreatening stimuli are perceived as dangerous; which someone else with normal amygdalae wouldn't.
So then, in my estimation, tomboys, girly boys, gays, lesbians, autistic, Dow Syndrome , and people trapped in the wrong body, are, for the most part, simply the victims of random genetics and common birth defects.
A pertinent example is the cop chick who took down the Muslim shooter at Fort Hood recently. She ran straight up to that guy blazing away with her gun; and even after getting hit twice with bullets herself, and falling to the floor, she kept shooting at the assailant until he dropped. (That girl would have been a real asset at the OK corral.) Point being: she didn't behave like a normal woman, but actually behaved like what I would call a real man; and that's because she's a tomboy rather than a real woman.
Since altering one's reproductive plumbing— viz: undergoing a sex change —isn't specifically addressed in the Bible, I would have to say that it's a matter to decide by one's own personal conscience according to the principles of the 14th chapter of Romans because sex changes fall into the category of a gray area. Therefore, people who condemn sex changes as sin are playing God when they do that because the Bible's God has said nothing about it.
†. Rom 14:1-3 . . Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him.
A person "weak in faith" isn't necessarily a new, inexperienced believer. It's simply a believer who isn't convinced one way or another whether something is wrong. And what we're talking about here are gray areas, which are areas the Bible doesn't address.
†. Rom 14:6 . . One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.
†. Rom 14:22-23 . . Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
It is far and away much better to be wrong in your estimation of sex changes than to be guilty of playing God and making the rules. Christians have but one rule-maker. Those who attempt to impose their rules on everybody else actually usurp Christ's sovereign right to make the rules for his own people.
†. Rom 14:4 . . Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls;
In conclusion then, and in accordance with New Testament principles, if you are convinced in your own mind that sex changes are sin, then for you they are sin: but not necessarily for everyone else since this is a matter of conscience rather than doctrine. Others may not trust your judgment; and prefer to rely upon their own in gray areas. So DON'T ARGUE! Fighting over gray areas is a brazen violation of Rom 14:1-3.
†. Mtt 23:8 . . For you have only one master, even Christ, and all of you are on the same level as brothers and sisters.
C.L.I.F.F.
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Last edited by Webers_Home; 9th November 2009 at 09:24 AM.
Interesting. I think the instances of such "confusion" so extremely rare as to be well beyond the norm - and imho thankfully so, given today's utter preoccupation with gender differences.
That having been said, I've no clue why I have nipples - or why it's ok to show mine in public (public beware) but only because they're relatively flat.
Neither do I understand why my body generates waste rather than process what I ingest completely.
I'm glad I have thumbs - they help me in innumerable ways, but I don't understand why I only use one of them when typing, and that just to press the "space bar."
What is the purpose too of an appendix? Why can my dad live without his gall bladder or a friend but one kidney? Why are people born with high arches only to get plantar fasciitus by walking barefoot or in sandals?
And - are belches and farts really necessary or does God just have a great sense of humor?
I would never personally date someone who was a man and chose to change their gender. I think that is defiling your body in one of the worst possible ways, refusing the gender that God gave you. It's so perverse.
In fairness - AIUI - transgender people would argue that the gender God gave them is the gender they feel they are, whereas the sexual organs, etc., were a mistake.
And I don't think it's perverse. Why do you think it is?
David.
__________________ David Brider
"...God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Trying to follow Christ daily.
With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall;
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.
So raise the scarlet standard high.
Beneath its folds we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.
So I'm home still sick and there's not a lot on to watch. So I just saw the tail end of the show Born In Wrong Body. Kind of scary. One could be hitting on a guy and it could have been a girl. Or vs versa. Does this bother anyone else?
It's a very interesting topic. And "weird" to be able to choose between being a man or a woman. If a birth certificate says male....how can they ever be recognized as a woman? Even if they look like a woman through surgery....aren't they always technically going to be male? In my mind, yes. You can act any way you want. You can do anything you want. But you're still the gender you were born with.
And people who marry transgender....how does that work? How do people work through that in their mind?
Just because someone may walk like a guy.....doesn't mean they aren't a women. We all have akward things about us.
Which also brings up the thought of what happens when a child is born and the doctors really can't tell if they are male or female....that would be a hard situation to be in as a parent.
Anyways....this can be a very strange topic....
I'll just make sure I ask for a birth certificate before I start dating
Oh, good gravy. Read basic sociological material on gender roles before you start these kinds of speculations. It'll give you less of a headache.
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"Offense" is something TAKEN. No one MAKES anyone feel anything. IF we are offended by something, we CHOSE to be offended by it...
But I think that OFTEN, people confuse discussion with fighting. Disagreeing is not personal, it is not an attack, it is not disrespectful or flaming, it is not offensive per se. It ONLY means, "I disagree." Nothing more. Nothing less. It suggests NO emotional response whatsoever.
NO ONE is mandated to agree with anyone.
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.
It sometimes happens that people become an entirely different person when banged on the head or undergo some other kind of injury like Harrison Ford in the movie Regarding Henry. Victims often exhibit a preference for different colors, different foods, different styles of clothing, different everything; and oftentimes don't even remember their loved ones. They also undergo a personality change. In Ford's case, he went from cruel, competitive, and thoughtless to affable, cooperative, and sensitive.
Though Ford's role was fictional, it really does happen in real life. So my question is; which of those two people would God judge as Ford? The hard-hearted Ford, or the kind-hearted Ford? Or would the one Ford be judged as two individuals?
You could ask that same question of gender change. Which will God judge? The male or the female? The question then arises: Does God have two standards of judgment— one for men, and one for women? Are women a protected species, or are they fair game in court equal to men?
Pop Quiz #1: Which is worse: Abuse to men or abuse to women? Again; which is worse: Denigrating men or denigrating women? Again; which is worse: Slapping a man, or slapping a woman? Again which is worse: Pouring scalding water on a man while he's sleeping, or pouring scalding water on a woman while she's sleeping? Again; which is worse: Domestic violence to a man, or domestic violence to a woman? Again; which is worse: Searing a man's face with a hot iron or searing a woman's face with a hot iron? Again; which is worse: A woman mutilating a man's genitals, or a man mutilating a woman's genitals? Again; which is worse: Humiliating a woman in front of her friends, or humiliating a man in front of his friends?
So you see, society on the whole does have double standards but I seriously doubt that the Bible's God does; so a sex change will not make things any easier at the Great White Throne of Rev 20:11-15. Just as many women will be deep-fried alive and shrieking in the reservoir of liquid flame as men.
Pop Quiz #2: What is the most common sin of all? Answer: lies. Everybody lies, even little children are pretty good at it.
Pop Quiz #3: Which is worse: a lie or a sex change? The answer is below. You be the judge.
†. Rev 21:8 . . All liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Pop Quiz #4: Of the six sins listed, which is worse: lies, murder, promiscuity, drug addiction, unbelief, or sex changes? Answer: all but sex changes are equal in seriousness.
†. Rev 21:8 . .The unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and druggies, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
NOTE: the Greek word for sorcerers in Rev 21:8 is pharmakeus (far-mak-yoos') which means: a druggist; viz: a vender of medicinal chemicals.
C.L.I.F.F.
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Last edited by Webers_Home; 9th November 2009 at 05:24 PM.
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