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  #11  
Old 10th November 2009, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Billnew View Post
We see the rule of law is depending on who you are. I do not believe in diplomatic immunity, except for possibly petty crimes that the visitor might not realize was a crime.(parking tickets being one.) Diplomatic immunity means people are above the law. I do not support it on our soil, nor other countries doing it for us.
On one hand, I have to admit that diplomatic immunity is likely a necessary evil. For example, can you imagine a country wanting to send a message to the US and so they arrest a high level diplomat on trumped up charges of something like child molestation? Not to mention, if they can arrest our diplomat on those trumped up charges, they can then interrogate that diplomat using whatever methods are legal in that country.

OTOH, I agree that diplomatic immunity is abused since diplomats know they are above the law.

Originally Posted by Billnew View Post
One note: How hard is it to convict people when they aren't there to defend themselves?

The taking of known terrorists by the military is the war on terror. We get them when we know where they are, rather then wait to go through the channels to get the ok, and the person gets away because someone tipped them off.
I can agree possibly with the CIA (or whatever group) acting on intel before the subject has a chance to escape. However, I submit that the suspect should immediately be turned over to local authorities (particularly in friendly countries) or else it is nothing more than kidnapping. If this truly was a valid terror suspect, then he should have been turned over to the Italians and then we could work with the Italians to get the suspect extradited.

Originally Posted by Billnew View Post
Rendition: the taking of the terror suspects to some place that allows torture is wrong.(torture, not just uncomfortable treatment) The US did torture(waterboarding), so I must assume, they did send suspects to be tortured in other countries.

I would hope the US goverment would have smoothed over the taking of a terror suspect without following procedures, and possibly figured out a way to work together in the future, to act quickly and arrest, rather than abduct, the suspect.

If a country does not assist in the arresting of suspected terrorists, the snatching of that suspect must be considered. The safety of nations depends on getting the terrorists, where they feel comfortable. BY the time goverments work out the paperwork, the person is gone, and may be able to kill thousands more people before he is caught or killed.

Limited abducting of suspects is defendable. Rendition is not.
And this is the problem with this example, the CIA wanted to send the suspect to a country that uses harsh forms of torture to try to get information. They knew Italy wouldn't willingly send a suspect to be tortured and so they sought to completely bypass the country and ignored a friendly countries laws. If a country came to the US and kidnapped a person and sent him to a country to be tortured against the wishes of the US government, I think we'd be hearing calls from many to bomb the kidnapping country back to the stone age.
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  #12  
Old 10th November 2009, 04:09 PM
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They should be ashamed for upholding Italian law within the borders of Italy????

Originally Posted by interpreter View Post
Shame on the Italian judge.
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  #13  
Old 10th November 2009, 06:26 PM
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War is hell.
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  #14  
Old 11th November 2009, 02:18 AM
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Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, the raping of captives with broken bottles--how low can they go in the name of "freedom?"

9/11 turned the USA into the world's #1 terrorist nation.
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  #15  
Old 11th November 2009, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ThankGodforGod View Post
Do I also need to mention that toutre is quite possibly the biggest reason we are in Iraq.

The first high ranking AQ member to be caught was tortured and after realized that a whole heck of a lot of questions were about Saddam and Iraq he started to spin a tale. Later it came out that in the training camps he would tell the recruits that you can be much more valuable giving false or misleading information after capture than just shutting down.

Even after the CIA told the Bush Administration that the guy was worthless they continued to use the intel because it justified their AQ-Iraq link.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7415760/

To sell the Iraq War to the American people, Bush and the neocons called it “the central front in the war on terror,” a claim that was buttressed by false information fed to the Bush administration by captured al-Qaeda operatives in the face of torture or threatened torture.


Those lies told about an Iraqi-Qaeda alliance -- whether coerced or intentionally misleading -- reflected a symbiotic relationship that had grown between the neocons and al-Qaeda, at least over their mutual desire to kill Saddam Hussein, a secular Muslim who brutally repressed extremists and also was an enemy of Israel.
By invading Iraq, Bush and the neocons gave three key gifts to al-Qaeda: they shifted U.S. military focus away from the Af-Pac border region where Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders were hiding; eliminated al-Qaeda’s rival Saddam Hussein; and intensified anti-Americanism, which helped al-Qaeda recruit more suicide bombers.


Beyond that, Bush and the neocons upgraded the prospects for extremists to destabilize the Pakistani government, whose collapse could deliver nuclear weapons into the hands of al-Qaeda terrorists, exactly the nightmare scenario that Bush and neocons cited to justify the invasion of Iraq.

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  #16  
Old 11th November 2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ringo84 View Post
Why?
Ringo
He is demon-possessed, and part of the False Prophet.
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Last edited by interpreter; 11th November 2009 at 09:52 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11th November 2009, 09:49 PM
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The Italian judge?

I'd love to hear you provide some proof of that.
Ringo
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  #18  
Old 11th November 2009, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by interpreter View Post
He is demon-possessed, and part of the False Prophet.
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  #19  
Old 12th November 2009, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ringo84 View Post
The Italian judge?

I'd love to hear you provide some proof of that.
Ringo
The Italian judge, though presumably a Christian, is on the wrong side in the war on terror; therefore he is a demon-possessed false prophet.
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  #20  
Old 12th November 2009, 11:04 PM
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What's the "right" side of the War on Terror, how is this judge on the wrong side of it, and why does that mean he's "demon possessed"?
Ringo
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-- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797. Presented to Congress and signed by everyone in attendance.

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.''
-- Madison's original proposal for the Bill of Rights

"I ain't afraid of your Yahweh
I ain't afraid of your Allah
I ain't afraid of your Jesus
I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God"
-- 'I Ain't Afraid' by The Klezmatics



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