Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?
Like everyone else who wants to ask this question, the answer has to come from God in person, once we have accepted Christ to get to heaven. Refuse acceptance of Jesus and you would be locked outside the city walls of God's kingdom. It's like having a ticket to enter a cinema to watch a movie. If I was God I would allow the curse to affect everyone, to learn from the experiences of sin in real life instead of virtual reality through computer digital goggles and surround sound headphones. That way, people can understand the pain of suffering that sin offers without asking God so many confusing questions about sin without feeling it.
__________________ I learn to accept Jesus Christ and our God the Father by default.
Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?
I think responsible is the wrong word. Perhaps the fact that we benefit from it is a better fit. We benefit from the Original sin.
Being born with the knowledge of Good and evil (Or to know right from wrong) places us in a unique state. It separate us apart from all of God's creation. It makes us accountable for our actions. to which, if we so choose we can find forgiveness for that sin.
It gives us the option to choose where we wish to spend eternity.
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Like everyone else who wants to ask this question, the answer has to come from God in person, once we have accepted Christ to get to heaven. Refuse acceptance of Jesus and you would be locked outside the city walls of God's kingdom. It's like having a ticket to enter a cinema to watch a movie. If I was God I would allow the curse to affect everyone, to learn from the experiences of sin in real life instead of virtual reality through computer digital goggles and surround sound headphones. That way, people can understand the pain of suffering that sin offers without asking God so many confusing questions about sin without feeling it.
how exactly would people know about sin if they didn't experience it? and are you saying that God makes everyone experience sin and suffering so we won't ask him confusing questions about it? can an omniscient God get confused?
I think responsible is the wrong word. Perhaps the fact that we benefit from it is a better fit. We benefit from the Original sin.
we benefit from it? isn't it the entire point of christianity that sin destroys us and jesus saves us from that destruction?
Originally Posted by drich0150
Being born with the knowledge of Good and evil (Or to know right from wrong) places us in a unique state. It separate us apart from all of God's creation. It makes us accountable for our actions. to which, if we so choose we can find forgiveness for that sin.
but wasn't it adam and eve's choice to gain knowledge of good and evil, and thats precisely what condemned them? why do we need to be accountable for our actions, don't we only need to be held accountable for our sins? and God supposedly created adam and eve in a perfect state, which they violated by gaining the knowledge of good and evil....
Originally Posted by drich0150
It gives us the option to choose where we wish to spend eternity.
but didn't God create adam and eve without that option, which was a perfect state? but they were given a choice anyway, to eat the fruit, so how can you say their free will only comes about after they eat it?
Hi Rainycity, are we guilty of original sin? Is there a Bible verse that suggests such a thing? Or is this another false charge against Christianity? I think the Bible says Adam was guilty of original sin, and the consequence of his sin is that all mankind was made sinners. If someone throws mud on you, are you guilty of making yourself muddy? Of course not.
Do we exist before we are born? Well we do not exist before we are conceived in iniquity. But we certainly exist in the womb.
Do we choose to be born (conceived)? Nope
What is the reason for every person to be "responsible" for the sin of Adam and Eve. First, lets leave Eve out of this, for it was Adam alone who committed original sin, Eve was deceived. Second, is there a Bible verse that suggests every individual is "responsible" for Adam's sin? Nope. So what prompted the question?
Lets go over the Biblical facts one more time. Adam and Eve were not created as sinners, they were not in a "separated from God" sinful state. They were with God in the garden. Satan deceived Eve and Eve tempted Adam, and Adam choose to go against God's word not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Thus Adam sinned, and as a consequence was tossed out of the garden, he was "separated" from God (as was Eve as a consequence of Adam's sin) and thus was made a "sinner" (someone in a separated from God sinful state.) Thus their children were conceived and born outside of the garden, also in a separated from God sinful state. Secondly, their human spirit is corrupted (as though muddied by Adam's sin) so we are predisposed to sin. This is taught when the Bible says that after Adam ate, then "their eyes were opened." So when Eve ate, her eyes were not opened, for she had not sinned by knowingly going against God's word, but when Adam sinned, then as a consequence, both of them had their eyes opened. So the corruption of mankind is not spread physically, like a genetic disorder, but spiritually.
we benefit from it? isn't it the entire point of christianity that sin destroys us and jesus saves us from that destruction?
Perhaps from a corporate worship point of view.
In actuality Sin simply put, is anything not in the expressed will of God.
Evil, is malicious intent to commit sin.
Not all sin is evil, but all evil is sin.
All sin evil or not, equates to death.
Free will (or the knowledge of good and evil and the freedom to act how we see fit) is the ability to choose something not in the expressed will of God. (the ability To sin) So why free will?
We have been blessed with free will so that we can choose whether or not to be with God. Meaning we have been given a choice, but in order for our choice to count we must have some options to choose from, (Our will or that of God)and from those choices there must be consequences. (death) So, Enter Jesus and His sacrifice.. Because when we choose our will over that of God even once, it places in a position not to be worthy of God, let alone to be with Him.. Jesus's blood remedies all of that.. It erases all of the bad choices we make, and reinforces the one that allows us to be with God.
but didn't God create adam and eve without that option, which was a perfect state? but they were given a choice anyway, to eat the fruit, so how can you say their free will only comes about after they eat it?
The free will Adam and eve experienced while in the Garden was that of a child, after the fruit, their knowledge of good and evil increased, (That's why they covered themselves) and then they were placed in a position of complete response ability for all of their actions. And subsequently everyone after them also benefited from this knowledge.
__________________ If I do not respond in a timely manor to your post, I invite you to send me a PM or a E/M to remind me of your situation. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone, and sometimes the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.
Last edited by drich0150; 7th November 2009 at 10:38 PM.
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"Only love overcomes the fragmentation of human nature."
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"For one who loves transforms all that he loves into himself, while one who hates loses even what he has. One who loves belongs to the loved one while one who hates does not even belong to himself. "
Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born?
A great question. There're whole books about this, e.g., "the Imputation of Adam's Sin". As concisely as I can say it: it's the inheritance. Like other things your parents may leave to you when they die, it's because you're part of a family. This is one of those things we've inherited: a relationship of enmity with God.
It's also somewhat inherited into our nature. Original sin is not so much the action of doing a sin, that's not what we've inherited; it's the innate corruption we've inherited from Adam disowning our whole dependence on God and striking off in our own direction, with our own limitations, without God.
Christ Jesus changes that -- He sets up a way to be adopted into a relationship with God as our Father.
Originally Posted by rainycity
Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
Not as far as I can tell from Scripture. But then, doesn't that mean our existence is really at the discretion of another? So its disposition could well be due to another as well.
Much of this is derived from Rom 5:12-21. It's a tough set of verses, but it means to say something to us.
__________________ "... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin
To us, O LORD, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you.
Why are we guilty of original sin from the moment we're born? Do we exist before we are born, and we choose to be born into this world?
What is the reason for every individual being responsible for the sin of adam and eve?
I'm sure I'll mess up the explanation here, but I'll try anyway:
This Augustinian notion is completely absent from Orthodox Christianity. The only people responsible for Original Sin are those who committed the sin. We only experience the consequence of their sin (death), not their guilt. We prefer the term ancestral sin. This is removed at one's baptism. We thoroughly reject the notion of human nature as being one of total depravity.
When sin entered the world, it corrupted creation through death. Through Christ, creation was restored. We have a way to theosis. It has been speculated that even if sin had never entered the world, we would still have had the need of Christ, as Adam was not yet in a state of theosis.
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