Two people witness a hit and run, but afterwards describe the car significantly differently. Are they describing the same car inaccurately, or describing a different car?
Yes, Muslims and Christians worship the same God but they have quite different understandings about what that God is like. In particular, because they don't recognise Jesus as the Word of God, Muslims are missing out on the clearest picture God has provided of what he is like: the full image of himself come among us.
Since most of the objections to considering them them the same God could also be applied to the Jewish idea of God then those objections clearly need to be rejected.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
As I type this I am listening to the radio which is focusing on the 'Parliament of the Religions' which is happening in Melbourne.
It is all about young people - where are the mature adults.
It would be appear from this straw poll that youth don't care much about our demarcation disputes - they would talk about 'possibilities' and not focus on apparent divisions.
Perhaps youth has something to say which we should pay attention.
__________________ Not all those who wander are lost
Yes, Muslims and Christians worship the same God but they have quite different understandings about what that God is like. In particular, because they don't recognise Jesus as the Word of God, Muslims are missing out on the clearest picture God has provided of what he is like: the full image of himself come among us.
Since most of the objections to considering them them the same God could also be applied to the Jewish idea of God then those objections clearly need to be rejected.
I believe it is fanciful to think that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. These are some of my reasons: Muslim doctrine from the Qu'ran
No Trinity
Surah 4:48, " Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin."
Surah 4:116, "Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray."
Surah 5:73, "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve."
Surah 5:116, " And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden ?"
Salvation
Surah 3:195, "And their Lord hath heard them (and He saith): Lo! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. So those who fled and were driven forth from their homes and suffered damage for My cause, and fought and were slain, verily I shall remit their evil deeds from them and verily I shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow - A reward from Allah. And with Allah is the fairest of rewards." Jesus Christ
He didn't die on the cross
Surah 4:157, "And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain." Jesus is not God
Surah 5:116, "And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden ?"
As for the Jews, here is evidence of the Trinity in the OT:
While there is no explicit statement in the Old Testament affirming the Triunity, we can confidently say that the Old Testament not only allows for the Triunity, but also implies that God is a triune Being in a number of ways:
(1) The name Elohim, translated God, is the plural form of El. While this is what is called a plural of plenitude pointing to the power and majesty of God, it certainly allows for the New Testament revelation of the Triunity of God.
(2) There are many instances where God uses the plural pronoun to describe Himself (see Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8).
(3) In the creation account, both God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are seen in the work of creation. It is stated that God created heaven and earth (Gen. 1:1), but that it was the Holy Spirit who moved over the earth to infuse it with life in the sense of protecting and participating in the work of creation (Gen. 1:2).
(4) Writing about the Messiah, Isaiah reveals Him to be equal with God, calling Him the “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father” (Isa. 9:6).
(5) Several passages reveal a distinction of Persons within the Godhead. ·In Psalm 110:1, David demonstrates there is a distinction of Persons between “LORD,” the one speaking, and the one addressed called by David, “my Lord.” David was indicating the Messiah was no ordinary king, but his own Lord, Adoni (my Lord), one who was God Himself. So God the first Person addresses God the second Person. This is precisely Peter’s point when He quotes this Psalm to show the resurrection of the Messiah was anticipated in the Old Testament. ·The Redeemer (who must be divine, Isa. 7:14; 9:6) is distinguished from the Lord (Isa. 59:20). ·The Lord is distinguished from the Lord in Hosea 1:6-7. The one speaking here is Yahweh, the Lord, yet, note the statement in verse 7, “I will have compassion … and deliver them by the Lord their God.” ·The Spirit is distinguished from the Lord in a number of passages (Isa. 48:16; 59:21; 63:9-10).
(6) In the Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 7:14, God made it clear that the One who would be born of the virgin would also be Immanuel, God with us. (7) Two other passages which imply the Trinity are Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1. In Isaiah 48:16 all three Persons are mentioned and yet seen as distinct from each other. See also Gen. 22:15-16.
So is there a place in Heaven for the Muslim and the Jew who do not believe the only way to the Father is through Jesus? Or is Jesus only for the Gentile believer, and the devout Jew and Muslim can get to Heaven without Christ?
Do you mean there is more than one God?
If God is supreme there can, by logic, only be one God.
It is neither magical nor fanciful but has more to do with entrench self-righteous beliefs.
It has more to do with which is the true revelation from God. We are dealing with truth.
Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).
So is there a place in Heaven for the Muslim and the Jew who do not believe the only way to the Father is through Jesus? Or is Jesus only for the Gentile believer, and the devout Jew and Muslim can get to Heaven without Christ?
ebia,
As for the Jews, here is evidence of the Trinity in the OT:
Whether you can show Trinity in the OT or not is beside the point - the question was not "Is the God of the bible the same as the God of the Koran", but "Is the God worshipped by Christians the same God as that worshipped by Muslims". To that end its the vision that Christians, Muslims and Jews have of God that is a relevant comparision, not what one thinks one can prove from their respective holy books.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
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