I don't know if this has been posted before, but it is about an argument every one has heard; the comparison between Christianity and older religions, like the Roman and Greek.
Nowadays, if you would seriously believe in, lets say, Jupiter, people will think you're crazy. However, 2000 years ago, people believed as firmly in their Gods, as Christians do today. I know you're all thinking: "Not this again", but I was just wandering if anyone could give a solid counter-argument.
If your answer to this is "Because it says so in the Bible" or "Because I know God is real" or something along those lines, please don't bother giving that reply. Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against people who have that opinion, however, it does nothing to progress this debate.
To get to the point, I was hoping anyone could provide me with an answer that doesn't involve circular logic.
I don't think the the burden of proof is on Christianity or Christians to provide you with a satisfactory answer. The answers you have received or perceived is all that is required from us to give. To which I should ask Why is it that you think Christianity has lasted so long?
No matter what you believe, you can not deny that Christianity is one of the oldest systems of belief out there, given it's roots in Judaism..
For those who believe, the key to true faith is in the generic answers you have cast aside. From there you answer can be found. No matter the age or manor of religion outside of Christianity as a whole, there is an emptiness. One that can be found in all of us. An emptiness that even speaks to you. And in you great efforts to worship the lords of science and History. (Or whatever) This emptiness can only be fill with a relationship with God. This is why religions die, they are empty without God. If people truly seek to worship God and can not find Him where they are, they move on.
So again, in the answers you have cast aside the true reason of faith can be found.
__________________ If I do not respond in a timely manor to your post, I invite you to send me a PM or a E/M to remind me of your situation. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone, and sometimes the squeakiest wheel gets the grease.
I don't know if this has been posted before, but it is about an argument every one has heard; the comparison between Christianity and older religions, like the Roman and Greek.
Nowadays, if you would seriously believe in, lets say, Jupiter, people will think you're crazy. However, 2000 years ago, people believed as firmly in their Gods, as Christians do today. I know you're all thinking: "Not this again", but I was just wandering if anyone could give a solid counter-argument.
One could, of course, suggest that the Judeo/Christian faith has been around for at least 3,000 years and has already stood the test of time you propose, where Greco/Roman paganism has not.
That doesn't, in itself, prove Christianity is true (Buddism has also survived for very long time, for instance), but it does deal with your immediate problem.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
Hi Bartus88, I guess your argument boils down to this, since the dawn of history, men have held religions that are now considered false, except for the one they adhere to. Does this not suggest that all religions are false?
I would answer that question with a no. The Bible tells us that we can infer God exists by what He has made. So to ascribe to "the gods" that which we do not understand, like how life began or how the universe began, seems natural. Therefore, that fact that men have given the gods many names does not suggest that "the God" does not exist.
Second point, since the evidence for God is not ironclad, doesn't the fact that folks can firmly believe in falsehood suggest we should not firmly believe in our God? No, because we could be right and therefore we should firmly cling to what seems true to us. Otherwise, we would be tossed about as by waves of the sea.
Last point, to me the alternate view seems less likely. To believe everything was created by random chance in light of the fact things go from order to disorder, seems like believing in the god Jupiter.
The problem with you question is this - whatever evidence we give you, you would most likely say it isnt enough.
So instead I give you this challenge - look for God for yourself. The way to do this is through prayer and when the time is right reading the bible..
I know you dont want to hear things from this bible but Jesus once said "knock and the door will be open, seek and you will find".
If you look for God you will find him, you wont find it easy because he never makes it easy, but if you are really and truly looking for him you will find him.
__________________ "God is the ultimate stalker" Emily Spencer, Oct 09 (used by permission)
I don't know if this has been posted before, but it is about an argument every one has heard; the comparison between Christianity and older religions, like the Roman and Greek.
Nowadays, if you would seriously believe in, lets say, Jupiter, people will think you're crazy. However, 2000 years ago, people believed as firmly in their Gods, as Christians do today. I know you're all thinking: "Not this again", but I was just wandering if anyone could give a solid counter-argument.
If your answer to this is "Because it says so in the Bible" or "Because I know God is real" or something along those lines, please don't bother giving that reply. Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against people who have that opinion, however, it does nothing to progress this debate.
To get to the point, I was hoping anyone could provide me with an answer that doesn't involve circular logic.
We acknowledge what the ancient religions got right. It is simply unfortunate that they delved into worshiping the gods of this world.
Also, just so you know where Christians past and present tend to stand on pagan customs among those who used to practice them before they were Christian: Only those that were completely counter to Christianity were done away with (by the very people who used to practice and believe them- so we're clear). Christianity has never had any problem incorporating pagan practices under the reasoning that any good practices are evidence that parts of the truth can be found anywhere among any peoples. St. Justin Martyr is definitely one I'll point you in the direction of if you'd like to read all about it.
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Troparion - Tone 4
Commanders of the heavenly hosts, we who are unworthy beseech you, by your prayers encompass us beneath the wings of your immaterial glory, and faithfully preserve us who fall down and cry to you: “Deliver us from all harm, for you are the commanders of the powers on high!”
Holy Archangel Michael, pray to God for me.
"It's later than you think. Hasten therefore, to do the work of God." ~ Fr. Seraphim Rose
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Paul gives the answer in Acts, when he was in Athens. Before, God was an unknown God, but Christ came to make Him known.
"Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.
“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
“Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man’s design and skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.”" (Acts 17:22-31)
I don't know if this has been posted before, but it is about an argument every one has heard; the comparison between Christianity and older religions, like the Roman and Greek.
Nowadays, if you would seriously believe in, lets say, Jupiter, people will think you're crazy. However, 2000 years ago, people believed as firmly in their Gods, as Christians do today. I know you're all thinking: "Not this again", but I was just wandering if anyone could give a solid counter-argument.
If your answer to this is "Because it says so in the Bible" or "Because I know God is real" or something along those lines, please don't bother giving that reply. Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against people who have that opinion, however, it does nothing to progress this debate.
To get to the point, I was hoping anyone could provide me with an answer that doesn't involve circular logic.
Mmmm. Jewish religion was way before Greek or Roman.
Roman religion was just a rip off of Greek.
Tsk, this reminds me of Dan Brown, author of "Da Vinci Code" saying in "Angels and Demons", 'Christianity is not new, Quetzocoatl of the Aztecs predicted it all'. Incredibly dumb. On so many levels.
Never even mind the East never connected with the West until the 1400s.
Or the timeline of the Aztecs..
*sigh*
Jesus is reflected in all of creation. There are signs & symbols from all religions. But, it all points to Jesus. And the reason being? It all points to God.
Read the Bible, throw away your sins - the only real thing preventing you from seeing - then see what we are saying is true.
Error is not your purpose. Perfection and eternal life is...
How were they gods of this world...are you refering to the worship of living men?
Not necessarily, though I'm certain it likely happened in some instances. Even in the New Testament (Acts specifically) you see how the people of Lystra considered Barnabas and Paul to be Zeus and Hermes respectively- much to the two's dismay- I might add.
We believe in angels (the bodiless powers of heaven). We also believe in fallen angels- i.e. demons. It is likely that many religions took to worshiping said beings.
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Troparion - Tone 4
Commanders of the heavenly hosts, we who are unworthy beseech you, by your prayers encompass us beneath the wings of your immaterial glory, and faithfully preserve us who fall down and cry to you: “Deliver us from all harm, for you are the commanders of the powers on high!”
Holy Archangel Michael, pray to God for me.
"It's later than you think. Hasten therefore, to do the work of God." ~ Fr. Seraphim Rose
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I don't know if this has been posted before, but it is about an argument every one has heard; the comparison between Christianity and older religions, like the Roman and Greek.
Nowadays, if you would seriously believe in, lets say, Jupiter, people will think you're crazy. However, 2000 years ago, people believed as firmly in their Gods, as Christians do today. I know you're all thinking: "Not this again", but I was just wandering if anyone could give a solid counter-argument.
If your answer to this is "Because it says so in the Bible" or "Because I know God is real" or something along those lines, please don't bother giving that reply. Don't get me wrong here, I have nothing against people who have that opinion, however, it does nothing to progress this debate.
To get to the point, I was hoping anyone could provide me with an answer that doesn't involve circular logic.
Your question is what? Why wouldn't we expect Christianity to disappear the same way as the religions of Rome? But isn't that a circular argument? A belief that Christianity is no different from the religions it ... was different from, 1500 years ago?
I would expect -- no, I'd actually look forward to -- the decline and fall of any view of Christianity held like people held to ancient religion. And I'd look forward to some caught in that decline recognizing that Christianity is different.
Many of those religions weren't held like you think they're held. Roman society was founded on the religions. By the First Century nominal worshippers were doing so in support of the community. They didn't believe in the gods. They weren't a "faith system". There was no one on Olympus, and everyone knew it. Philosophers were buttressing Roman godhood by conceiving of the traditional stories in a new way, as "myth", the "good story", what we might call the "moral fable". Religious nostalgia was actually a philosophical movement in First Century Rome. Their decline and fall were going to happen. Many philosophical views had already torn at Roman society, particularly the Stoics and Epicureans. Loss of the gods undermined Roman society. It did self-destruct.
Christianity is different. Its principles are different. Its strategies are different. It doesn't put gods in control of regions, governments, cultures, genealogies. Those concepts are mixed up with classical Roman views of gods. Christianity doesn't work like other religions. It'll emerge where you least expect it, because of that. It's based on reliance on grace, and that grace has to initially come from somewhere to be received. When people will not rely on grace any more, then yeah, Christianity will decline. Much to the impoverishment of humanity.
__________________ "... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin
To us, O LORD, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you.
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