Irrelevant. I have ideals, even if they are not specifically theistic ones. The issue here isn't if I have the same range of ideals as Christians (or other theists) do, but if I have a range of ideals at all.
Why do you even have ideals?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
Of course, I could also point out that theistic purposes in our godless universe are either pointless or at best placebo-like, so it's not like I'm missing out on much.
You could, but then at the very least you're here to argue in truth that everyone's purpose is pointless
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
There is no "must" here. Purpose for an atheist may be biocentric, as it is for me. Purpose for me isn't about mere desire.
Why has your biology allowed you to realise that there's no more purpose than it?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
That's a tricky question to answer. I'm strongly influenced by Ayn Rand's ideas, but I don't fit neatly into a box labelled "Objectivist". I like much of the broader Greek/Aristotelian philosophical tradition, and so I usually call myself a Eudaimonist, but in some contexts Objectivist may be appropriate enough.
I was just curious. Every Objectivist I've argued against has been impossible to argue against!!! Each has arrived at some conclusion, and therefore thinks that their conclusion is logical.
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
You don't seriously mean to suggest that hope is only a theistic issue?
You seriously mean to suggest that you think 'hope' is biological?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
It's a human issue. Anyone can experience hope. Christians only have one specific form of hope.
Only one? Is this a game of numbers?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
The point of hoping is to avoid despair and to have the psychological resources to make the most of one's existence. Despair is anti-life and anti-flourishing. Hope need not be for eternal life, but for life of any desirable sort.
For what purpose?
I never understand people arguing with purpose to argue that they have no real purpose! It's illogical. Hence I'm not an atheist. I don't have enough faith to be one...
As British biologist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1927, "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose my beliefs are true . . . and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms." George Gilder -- Evolution and Me
also at CSC - Evolution and Me
__________________ Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Montalban, are you trying to argue that only stasis can be considered relevant, because things mustn't change or transform? :scratch head:
I must confess that I don't quite understand your perspective. If life was eternal rather than finite, then every single moment would be completely meaningless in relation to infinity.
__________________ When man interferes with the Tao,
the sky becomes filthy,
the earth becomes depleted,
the equilibrium crumbles,
creatures become extinct.
--Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching
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Montalban, are you trying to argue that only stasis can be considered relevant, because things mustn't change or transform? :scratch head:
I must confess that I don't quite understand your perspective. If life was eternal rather than finite, then every single moment would be completely meaningless in relation to infinity.
Agreed, thankyou Wicked Willow.
Also, it's nice to get a pagan in on this discussion. I must admit I don't know much about the pagan world view, and I look forward to reading your posts
__________________ With each gift that you share
You may heal and repair
With each choice that you make
You may help someone's day
Well I know you are strong
May your journey be long
Now I wish you the best of luck
Oh, there is no such thing as THE pagan world view (although fluff bunny wiccans might disagree with me on that, being fluff bunnies).
I don't actually have any questions with regards to atheism, seeing how the term emcompasses almost as many different world views as the term "theism". (Plus, I'm a fairly unorthodox theist myself, having MUCH more in common with atheists than with most other "believers".)
__________________ When man interferes with the Tao,
the sky becomes filthy,
the earth becomes depleted,
the equilibrium crumbles,
creatures become extinct.
--Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching
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Hi Reality Pixie,
"The only thing I ask from you is that if you provide a quote, statistic or any other information that is not your own thought,"
Most of my thoughts are based on my prior experience. Now every once in a while I like to think I have a "flash of originality" but as I get older, sadly, they seem to come fewer and far between. And sometimes, when I think I am having a fresh thought, I subsequently realize, no I was just traveling down a forgotten rut in my mind. Enjoy youth, and do not waste it trying to fit everything into a philosophy of life.
Some folks, in trying to understand the book of Revelation claim that Babylon refers to false religion, and so it seems God is an atheist of sorts. While this may be a flash of originality, its claim on truth seems more dubious. But it is true that he is against all gods but himself. Sounds atheistic to me. May God bless
Because I'm a human being, and as such I have a good -- a well-being -- in which ideals take part. Ideals are nourishing and ennobling.
You could, but then at the very least you're here to argue in truth that everyone's purpose is pointless
Non-sequitur. I'm not arguing from your worldview. It is not my view that only theistic purpose has a point.
Why has your biology allowed you to realise that there's no more purpose than it?
Please stop shifting the goal posts. I do not need to argue such a thing in order to explain how purpose need not be merely a matter of desire for atheists.
I was just curious. Every Objectivist I've argued against has been impossible to argue against!!!
Look in the mirror.
Each has arrived at some conclusion, and therefore thinks that their conclusion is logical.
Are you looking in the mirror yet?
It is trivially true that everyone who strives to be logical believes their conclusions to be a product of logic. This is hardly limited to Objectivists.
You seriously mean to suggest that you think 'hope' is biological?
Yes, I do. Although "psychological" might be a better term, though human psychology is rooted in human biology. Hope is a human psychological ability. I can't imagine why this would be controversial.
Only one? Is this a game of numbers?
Huh? I'm just saying that Christians have invented their own form of hope in which they've imbued Christian significance.
For what purpose?
As I had already written, to achieve a desirable form of life. I.e, to flourish, to achieve eudaimonia.
I never understand people arguing with purpose to argue that they have no real purpose! It's illogical.
Of course it is illogical, which is why I'm not arguing that. I have real purpose, which is to flourish in my finite life.
As British biologist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1927, "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose my beliefs are true . . . and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."
This is a decent argument to use against reductive materialists. I am not one. Have fun with them.
eudaimonia,
Mark
__________________ It's better to live as your own man than as a fool in someone else's dream.
-- Commander Koenig, Space: 1999
Last edited by Eudaimonist; 7th November 2009 at 01:28 PM.
So there's a thread going on in 'Exploring Christianity' Where the OP invited xtians to ask questions regarding atheism. This seems to be a more fitting place for such a discussion. So...
Hi! I'm RealityPixie and I'm an athiest!
Got a question about atheism? Wanna have a debate? Want to clear some things up about your religion? Or just looking to understand the atheistic world view?
Well here I am, your friendly neighbourhood atheist at your service! I dont claim to be an expert, but it seems there are a few of us floating around, and I'm sure the others will also be happy to help with your questions.
The only thing I ask from you is that if you provide a quote, statistic or any other information that is not your own thought, you must be willing to cite if it is asked of you. You don't have to write it out like a research paper, but if somebody asks where you got your info from you must be willing to supply the source, otherwise such info will be null and void.
Love;
Your friendly neighbourhood spider- I mean atheist
Thank you for your friendly greeting. I'm not attempting to debate. Just a question. What would you tell me if i was steeped in a depression and a forboding sadness because i was just told i have 2 weeks at best to live, because i have an incurable illness that is little understood, and there is no cure for?
In all seriousness, what would you tell me?
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To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge" --Ravi Zacharias
"God is in the rain."~Evey in V for Vendetta
"The unexamined life is not worth living". ~Socrates
i hated it when God insisted i "yawp!"
but He knew i must,
and that my life would not begin,
until i yawped.
We all must learn to yawp.
we MUST awaken the passion,
that part of us that feels intensely,
and is NOT afraid to say so
or to express it.
Otherwise we are just dead men walking.
my journal/blog:
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Location: Brighton, the proud gay capital of Britain!
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Blessings: 59,828
Reps: 9,185,260,456,840 (power: 9,185,260,457)
Originally Posted by TerranceL
Real life is often much less interesting than fantasy.
True, but that doesn't make atheism any less boring...
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Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
Montalban, are you trying to argue that only stasis can be considered relevant, because things mustn't change or transform? :scratch head:
I must confess that I don't quite understand your perspective. If life was eternal rather than finite, then every single moment would be completely meaningless in relation to infinity.
I've no idea what stasis is, excepting in regards sci-fi.
I don't argue life is eternal. I don't think I mentioned that. It's good someone agrees with you though... whatever it is you're saying. I don't get it though
__________________ Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
But it is true that he is against all gods but himself. Sounds atheistic to me. May God bless 
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