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7th November 2009, 08:08 AM
|  | Vive la France! 44 
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Reps: 1,599,740,264,866,359,808 (power: 1,599,740,264,866,399) | | Originally Posted by Eudaimonist Irrelevant. I have ideals, even if they are not specifically theistic ones. The issue here isn't if I have the same range of ideals as Christians (or other theists) do, but if I have a range of ideals at all.
Why do you even have ideals? Originally Posted by Eudaimonist Of course, I could also point out that theistic purposes in our godless universe are either pointless or at best placebo-like, so it's not like I'm missing out on much.
You could, but then at the very least you're here to argue in truth that everyone's purpose is pointless Originally Posted by Eudaimonist There is no "must" here. Purpose for an atheist may be biocentric, as it is for me. Purpose for me isn't about mere desire.
Why has your biology allowed you to realise that there's no more purpose than it? Originally Posted by Eudaimonist That's a tricky question to answer. I'm strongly influenced by Ayn Rand's ideas, but I don't fit neatly into a box labelled "Objectivist". I like much of the broader Greek/Aristotelian philosophical tradition, and so I usually call myself a Eudaimonist, but in some contexts Objectivist may be appropriate enough.
I was just curious. Every Objectivist I've argued against has been impossible to argue against!!! Each has arrived at some conclusion, and therefore thinks that their conclusion is logical. Originally Posted by Eudaimonist You don't seriously mean to suggest that hope is only a theistic issue?
You seriously mean to suggest that you think 'hope' is biological? Originally Posted by Eudaimonist It's a human issue. Anyone can experience hope. Christians only have one specific form of hope.
Only one? Is this a game of numbers? Originally Posted by Eudaimonist The point of hoping is to avoid despair and to have the psychological resources to make the most of one's existence. Despair is anti-life and anti-flourishing. Hope need not be for eternal life, but for life of any desirable sort.
For what purpose?
I never understand people arguing with purpose to argue that they have no real purpose! It's illogical. Hence I'm not an atheist. I don't have enough faith to be one...
As British biologist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1927, "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose my beliefs are true . . . and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms." George Gilder -- Evolution and Me
also at CSC - Evolution and Me
__________________ Will you be my Valentine?
Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Hail Mary, full of Grace;
The Lord is with thee | 
7th November 2009, 08:39 AM
|  | Senior Veteran

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Reps: 159,784,663,935,918,112 (power: 0) | | | Montalban, are you trying to argue that only stasis can be considered relevant, because things mustn't change or transform? :scratch head:
I must confess that I don't quite understand your perspective. If life was eternal rather than finite, then every single moment would be completely meaningless in relation to infinity. | 
7th November 2009, 08:59 AM
| | Space Cadet
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Reps: 19,550,139,574,747 (power: 19,550,139,577) | | Originally Posted by Wicked Willow Montalban, are you trying to argue that only stasis can be considered relevant, because things mustn't change or transform? :scratch head:
I must confess that I don't quite understand your perspective. If life was eternal rather than finite, then every single moment would be completely meaningless in relation to infinity.
Agreed, thankyou Wicked Willow.
Also, it's nice to get a pagan in on this discussion. I must admit I don't know much about the pagan world view, and I look forward to reading your posts
__________________ With each gift that you share
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7th November 2009, 09:09 AM
|  | Senior Veteran

| | Join Date: 2nd May 2005
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Reps: 159,784,663,935,918,112 (power: 0) | | | Oh, there is no such thing as THE pagan world view (although fluff bunny wiccans might disagree with me on that, being fluff bunnies).
I don't actually have any questions with regards to atheism, seeing how the term emcompasses almost as many different world views as the term "theism". (Plus, I'm a fairly unorthodox theist myself, having MUCH more in common with atheists than with most other "believers".) | 
7th November 2009, 10:40 AM
| | Contributor
 | | Join Date: 28th October 2004 Location: California
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Reps: 866,456,371,216,119 (power: 866,456,371,232) | | Hi Reality Pixie,
"The only thing I ask from you is that if you provide a quote, statistic or any other information that is not your own thought,"
Most of my thoughts are based on my prior experience. Now every once in a while I like to think I have a "flash of originality" but as I get older, sadly, they seem to come fewer and far between. And sometimes, when I think I am having a fresh thought, I subsequently realize, no I was just traveling down a forgotten rut in my mind. Enjoy youth, and do not waste it trying to fit everything into a philosophy of life.
Some folks, in trying to understand the book of Revelation claim that Babylon refers to false religion, and so it seems God is an atheist of sorts. While this may be a flash of originality, its claim on truth seems more dubious.  But it is true that he is against all gods but himself. Sounds atheistic to me. May God bless | 
7th November 2009, 01:08 PM
|  | Reverencing the Exalted Spirit of Man 45 
| | Join Date: 1st January 2003 Location: American resident of Sweden
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Reps: 440,945,404,461,670,976 (power: 440,945,404,461,699) | | Originally Posted by Montalban Why do you even have ideals?
Because I'm a human being, and as such I have a good -- a well-being -- in which ideals take part. Ideals are nourishing and ennobling. You could, but then at the very least you're here to argue in truth that everyone's purpose is pointless
Non-sequitur. I'm not arguing from your worldview. It is not my view that only theistic purpose has a point. Why has your biology allowed you to realise that there's no more purpose than it?
Please stop shifting the goal posts. I do not need to argue such a thing in order to explain how purpose need not be merely a matter of desire for atheists. I was just curious. Every Objectivist I've argued against has been impossible to argue against!!!
Look in the mirror. Each has arrived at some conclusion, and therefore thinks that their conclusion is logical.
Are you looking in the mirror yet?
It is trivially true that everyone who strives to be logical believes their conclusions to be a product of logic. This is hardly limited to Objectivists. You seriously mean to suggest that you think 'hope' is biological?
Yes, I do. Although "psychological" might be a better term, though human psychology is rooted in human biology. Hope is a human psychological ability. I can't imagine why this would be controversial. Only one? Is this a game of numbers?
Huh? I'm just saying that Christians have invented their own form of hope in which they've imbued Christian significance.
As I had already written, to achieve a desirable form of life. I.e, to flourish, to achieve eudaimonia. I never understand people arguing with purpose to argue that they have no real purpose! It's illogical.
Of course it is illogical, which is why I'm not arguing that. I have real purpose, which is to flourish in my finite life. As British biologist J. B. S. Haldane wrote in 1927, "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose my beliefs are true . . . and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."
This is a decent argument to use against reductive materialists. I am not one. Have fun with them. eudaimonia,
Mark
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Last edited by Eudaimonist; 7th November 2009 at 01:28 PM.
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7th November 2009, 01:14 PM
|  | everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

| | Join Date: 23rd March 2004
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,908) | | Originally Posted by RealityPixie So there's a thread going on in 'Exploring Christianity' Where the OP invited xtians to ask questions regarding atheism. This seems to be a more fitting place for such a discussion. So...
Hi! I'm RealityPixie and I'm an athiest!
Got a question about atheism? Wanna have a debate? Want to clear some things up about your religion? Or just looking to understand the atheistic world view?
Well here I am, your friendly neighbourhood atheist at your service! I dont claim to be an expert, but it seems there are a few of us floating around, and I'm sure the others will also be happy to help with your questions.
The only thing I ask from you is that if you provide a quote, statistic or any other information that is not your own thought, you must be willing to cite if it is asked of you. You don't have to write it out like a research paper, but if somebody asks where you got your info from you must be willing to supply the source, otherwise such info will be null and void.
Love;
Your friendly neighbourhood spider- I mean atheist 
Thank you for your friendly greeting. I'm not attempting to debate. Just a question. What would you tell me if i was steeped in a depression and a forboding sadness because i was just told i have 2 weeks at best to live, because i have an incurable illness that is little understood, and there is no cure for?
In all seriousness, what would you tell me?
__________________ "Prove all things;
hold fast that which is good.
Abstain from all appearance of evil."
~1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 posted by ViaCrucis:
It's not even "too much Old Testament", in the Old Testament God is compassionate, shows mercy, is patient and long-suffering. Consider the lesson we learn from Jonah, or the word delivered to Ezekiel that God does not desire the death of the wicked, that God takes no pleasure or joy in the destruction of the wicked by desires that that the wicked repent and change their ways so they might live and have life. God has always been a merciful, compassionate, kind and patient God who has no desire for the destruction of the wicked, who has loving-kindness for the sinner and for the wicked person to change their ways and truly live and have life. -CryptoLutheran | 
7th November 2009, 01:33 PM
|  | Moderator 21  | | Join Date: 30th July 2009 Location: South London, United Kingdom of Her Majesty
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Reps: 487,428,604,501,145,536 (power: 487,428,604,501,153) | | Originally Posted by TerranceL Real life is often much less interesting than fantasy.
True, but that doesn't make atheism any less boring...
__________________ Is not that which pleases the King, the law?- Thomas Cromwell, Secretary of Henry VIII | 
7th November 2009, 09:39 PM
|  | I miss my friend Princess-Pumpkin.
 | | Join Date: 15th October 2009
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How did you find CF?
Thank you for answering my questions RealityPixie (Cool name)  Originally Posted by RealityPixie Greenapplez:
My day has only just started really, had a good sleep in *yawn*. Thanks for asking  | 
7th November 2009, 09:56 PM
|  | Vive la France! 44 
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Reps: 1,599,740,264,866,359,808 (power: 1,599,740,264,866,399) | | Originally Posted by Wicked Willow Montalban, are you trying to argue that only stasis can be considered relevant, because things mustn't change or transform? :scratch head:
I must confess that I don't quite understand your perspective. If life was eternal rather than finite, then every single moment would be completely meaningless in relation to infinity.
I've no idea what stasis is, excepting in regards sci-fi.
I don't argue life is eternal. I don't think I mentioned that. It's good someone agrees with you though... whatever it is you're saying. I don't get it though
__________________ Will you be my Valentine?
Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Hail Mary, full of Grace;
The Lord is with thee |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |