why are atheists boring? well the answer to that is we are not boring. in fact, we understand that once we die, thats it. for this reason life is infinitely more valuable and we cherish every moment of it.
we dont have any cool stories though so sorry about that... except the Golden Compass i guess, but we know thats fiction.
__________________ 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 peter 3:15)
Buildings are interesting. Traditition is interesting. Stories are interesting. Hope is interesting. It's an unfortunate fact that atheism lacks all four.
Oh, I have all four.
But this may hinge on just what one means by "atheism". If that means simply "a lack of belief in a god or gods", then I'll agree with you that is boring. If the entire world were atheist, the reasons for belief/nonbelief in members of the divine persuasion would be a boring subject to discuss, and I would discuss other things.
However, if atheism can refer to nontheistic ways of life, then the field of values opens up tremendously.
Buildings: Any building not dedicated to some religious ideal or purpose could reasonably be seen as a humanistic one, serving human purposes or ideals. How many buildings are not churches, temples, or mosques? Well, it looks like I have plenty of buildings to enjoy.
Tradition: Again, any secular or humanistic past could count here. The history of the West since the Renaissance is a tradition of a gradual shifting of cultural ideas to secular and humanistic ones. Progress is our tradition.
Stories: Ayn Rand is just one of many atheistic authors who wrote stories in which no god was thought to exist. While she, or the other authors, might not be to your taste, you can't say the stories don't exist.
Hope: We have plenty of hope. We can hope for our own happiness and that of others, for the gradual improvement of the human condition, and that everyone can learn to focus on what is good in life instead of obsessing over their own finitude and inventing grandiose escape clauses.
So, I think you'll find much of interest outside of theism.
eudaimonia,
Mark
__________________ It's better to live as your own man than as a fool in someone else's dream.
-- Commander Koenig, Space: 1999
But this may hinge on just what one means by "atheism". If that means simply "a lack of belief in a god or gods", then I'll agree with you that is boring. If the entire world were atheist, the reasons for belief/nonbelief in members of the divine persuasion would be a boring subject to discuss, and I would discuss other things.
However, if atheism can refer to nontheistic ways of life, then the field of values opens up tremendously.
Buildings: Any building not dedicated to some religious ideal or purpose could reasonably be seen as a humanistic one, serving human purposes or ideals. How many buildings are not churches, temples, or mosques? Well, it looks like I have plenty of buildings to enjoy.
If you're an atheist then there's a whole realm of purpose you're missing out on
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
Tradition: Again, any secular or humanistic past could count here. The history of the West since the Renaissance is a tradition of a gradual shifting of cultural ideas to secular and humanistic ones. Progress is our tradition.
Progressive tradition?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
Stories: Ayn Rand is just one of many atheistic authors who wrote stories in which no god was thought to exist. While she, or the other authors, might not be to your taste, you can't say the stories don't exist.
You're not an Objectivist are you?
Originally Posted by Eudaimonist
Hope: We have plenty of hope. We can hope for our own happiness and that of others, for the gradual improvement of the human condition, and that everyone can learn to focus on what is good in life instead of obsessing over their own finitude and inventing grandiose escape clauses.
So, I think you'll find much of interest outside of theism.
Why hope though?
__________________ Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Montalban: Yes I believe in many objective truths, mainly in regard to science. However, there are some relms of the human experience (ie, morality) where I do not believe there is an object truth.
The objective truth behind my purpose, the one that it true regardless of what I think of it, is that I am here to spread my genes. That's cool, I accept that. However I also superimpose my own subjective meaning, things like "I want to use my life to help people", etc. When we are getting into psychology, how people think, etc, nobody thinks the same way, and so there can be few objective truths of the mind, conciousness and thought process. Of the natural world though, yes there are many objective truths.
Erm...I'm not sure whether I've explained that quite right, I'm a little distracted right now. If anyone wants to jump in or correct me you are more than welcome.
If you're an atheist then there's a whole realm of purpose you're missing out on
Irrelevant. I have ideals, even if they are not specifically theistic ones. The issue here isn't if I have the same range of ideals as Christians (or other theists) do, but if I have a range of ideals at all.
Of course, I could also point out that theistic purposes in our godless universe are either pointless or at best placebo-like, so it's not like I'm missing out on much.
Purpose for an Atheist must be wholly subjective
There is no "must" here. Purpose for an atheist may be biocentric, as it is for me. Purpose for me isn't about mere desire.
You're not an Objectivist are you?
That's a tricky question to answer. I'm strongly influenced by Ayn Rand's ideas, but I don't fit neatly into a box labelled "Objectivist". I like much of the broader Greek/Aristotelian philosophical tradition, and so I usually call myself a Eudaimonist, but in some contexts Objectivist may be appropriate enough.
Why hope though?
You don't seriously mean to suggest that hope is only a theistic issue? It's a human issue. Anyone can experience hope. Christians only have one specific form of hope.
The point of hoping is to avoid despair and to have the psychological resources to make the most of one's existence. Despair is anti-life and anti-flourishing. Hope need not be for eternal life, but for life of any desirable sort.
eudaimonia,
Mark
__________________ It's better to live as your own man than as a fool in someone else's dream.
-- Commander Koenig, Space: 1999
Last edited by Eudaimonist; 7th November 2009 at 07:29 AM.
Montalban: Yes I believe in many objective truths, mainly in regard to science. However, there are some relms of the human experience (ie, morality) where I do not believe there is an object truth.
The objective truth behind my purpose, the one that it true regardless of what I think of it, is that I am here to spread my genes. That's cool, I accept that. However I also superimpose my own subjective meaning, things like "I want to use my life to help people", etc. When we are getting into psychology, how people think, etc, nobody thinks the same way, and so there can be few objective truths of the mind, conciousness and thought process. Of the natural world though, yes there are many objective truths.
Why do you impose subjective meaning?
Why is it your genes have allowed you to know that your only purpose is to spread them?
__________________ Fāilte dhut a Mhoire, tha thu lan de na grāsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
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