fall of man

why is it that i adopt a 'suspension of reason' to include myself in the fall of man, this is something I did not do, but then adopt reason to think that if I work God will bless me?

in other words, if I work and God blesses me is it deserved? Did I in any way earn it?

Are you sinless? If not you, like Adam, are fallen and in desperate need of a Savior, not a philosophical system.

1 John 5
11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

I am asking if I deserve my income, not my salvation. From sin or fall to salvation there are steps a man takes, these steps I earn money, I can invest, I can buy food, I can give to the church. I am asking if it is mine to have control of, is it mine because God had blessed me with it, is it mine because I earned it?

You earned it using the resources (life, health, intelligence, etc) God gave you. You are a steward of the money you earn and should use it to glorify Him. And that includes enjoying life.

Dave Ramsey does a great job on the topic of money from a Christian perspective. Google his name and you'll find his website. Good stuff.

Chaplain Steve

If I earned it, what am I asking for when I pray,

"give us this day our daily bread"?

He gave you the opportunity and the ability.

I don't understand the answer you gave. Are you saying I am asking for the opportunity and the ability when I pray, "give us this day our daily bread"?

You seem to be pretty clear on issues of gay marriage, masturbation and/or abortion, why speak in riddles when it comes to the Lord's prayer.

I realize much of what the Lord spoke was in parables, however I do not believe Jesus taught us to pray in parables, all of the Lord's prayer is pretty clear, "our Father", "deliver us from evil" etc. etc. am I mistaken on this?

I find I must clarify your answer, and ask again, "what am I asking for when I pray, give us this day our daily bread"?

It it parallel to James instruction in chapter 4

13Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." 14Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." 16As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil.


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It is asking God to provide that which is needed. We are dependent on Him for the life, health, metal ability that are requisites for pursuing our plans and making a living.

curiously the specific requests you listed were "life, health, and mental ability" yet bread is none of these things, bread is something you "buy"

Could I then include 'bread' in the catagory of The average cost of the basic necessities of life, such as food, shelter, and clothing?

The difficulty here is which is correct, or both are correct

when I pray, "give us this day our daily bread" am I asking only for those things money cannot buy, 'health, life, mental ability' Or the basic necessities, 'food, shelter, and clothing' Or both?

am I being ignored?