I'll just lob these into the room for reference. Sorry if it bugs you.
From the Small Catechism, third article:
I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; just as He calls, gathers, enlightens and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith. In this Christian Church He daily and richly forgives me and all believers all our sins; and at the last day He will raise up me and all the dead, and will grant me and all believers in Christ eternal life. This is most certainly true.
From the Christian Cyclopedia on the LCMS website:
Synergism
(from Gk. synergeo, “to work with”). In religious context the term refers to the concept of man cooperating with God in his own conversion.* The concept of synergism developed out of an attempt to solve an apparent contradiction. Scripture teaches the native corruption of man (Jn 3:6), that God provided all-inclusive redemption (Eze 33:11; Jn 3:16; 2 Co 5:19; 1 Ti 2:4), and that man is saved by faith (Mk 16:16; Gl 3:11).
Three views have been held regarding the “how” of conversion: (1) God alone brings man to faith; (2) man unilaterally decides to believe; (3) man cooperates with God (God begins, man completes conversion; or vice versa). Gen. speaking, the synergistic view holds that man is by nature not altogether spiritually dead and that some resist God's call to faith less violently than others.
The synergistic view rests on such arguments as these: (1) if one can do nothing in his conversion, he will become careless and fatalistic; (2) the call to repent (Mk 1:15; Acts 2:38) implies power to repent; (3) if man is entirely passive, conversion is mechanical; (4) God makes conversion possible, man makes it real; (5) since man can hinder conversion (Mt 23:37; Lk 7:30) he can also cooperate in it; (6) ability to resist implies ability to cease resisting.
Scripture teaches that man is by nature spiritually dead (Jn 5:24; Eph 2:1) and antagonistic to spiritual things (Ro 8:7–8; 1 Co 2:14) and that man is saved by God's grace, not by works (Eph 2:8–10). Whatever synergism there is, in the proper sense of the term, follows conversion and is a result of God's monergism in man's conversion (Jn 6:44, 63–65; Ro 9:16; 2 Co 4:6; 5:17; 6:1; Eph 4:24; Cl 1:13). EMP
Conversion.
The doctrine of conversion is of paramount importance in the total body of Scriptural teaching and Christian belief, since it shows how the salvation won for us by Christ is brought into the possession of the individual sinner for his soul's eternal salvation.
I. Necessity of Conversion. It is God's good and gracious will that every human being should be saved (Jn 3:16; 1 Ti 2:4; Tts 2:11); Jesus fulfilled the Law in our stead and provided a sufficient ransom from sin, death, and the devil (Jn 1:29). But it is not in the power of anyone to take for himself the fruits of Christ's redemption. Faith in Christ, deliverance from the power of darkness, and translation into the kingdom of the Son cannot be achieved by any human being for himself (Eph 2:1). The 1st disobedience brought dire consequences to the entire human race. Man lost his perfect knowledge of God (1 Co 2:7–9; 13:9–10). After the Fall man is still a rational being, with understanding and a will, able to acquire intellectual knowledge of the truths of the Gospel; but he cannot of himself acquire the spiritual grasp that accepts, believes, and trusts in what has been heard and learned (1 Co 1:23; 2:14). Man's will is free in worldly affairs (Ap XVII 4, 7, 9), but there is nothing in the mind and heart of natural, unconverted man that could incline his will toward God (Gn 8:21; Jn 6:44; Ro 8:5). This corruption of the mind and will is not merely a relative loss of righteousness, but natural man no longer has a remnant of the divine image or of his original powers (Mk 16:16: Jn 1:5; 8:34, 37; 15:5; Ro 3:12; 8:7; 1 Co 2:14; 2 Co 3:5; Eph 2:1–2, 12; Ph 2:13; 2 Ti 2:26; FCSD II 7, 12–14, 20–21). See also Free Will;Image of God.
II. Nature of Conversion.
1. The word “conversion” (Gk. epistrophe) is taken from Scripture (Ps 51:13; Is 60:5; Acts 3:19; Ja 5:19–20); tr. “turn” (Acts 9:35; 11:21; 14:15; 26:18; 2 Co 3:16), “return” (1 Ptr 2:25). Luther commonly tr. it with Bekehrung. Various synonyms are used in Scripture (e.g., regeneration, new birth, second birth, awakening, illumination, call, repentance), all denoting the act of divine grace by which the sinner is delivered from the power of darkness and tr. into the kingdom of Christ. (Cl 1:13)
2. The word “conversion” is used in Scripture in a wider and a narrower sense. In the wider sense it designates the entire process whereby man is transferred from his carnal state into a spiritual state of faith* and grace* and then enters, and under the continued influence of the Holy Spirit continues in, a state of faith and spiritual life.
3. Conversion in the narrower sense is essentially the bestowal of faith (donatio fidei) in God's promise of salvation for Christ's sake. It takes place in the heart and consists in this, that a heart, broken and contrite because of sin, comes to faith in Christ and trusts in Christ for grace and forgiveness (Acts 11:21). It takes place when the Holy Spirit engenders faith in the hearts of penitents through the Word of God (Law and Gospel) and the Sacraments. (Is 55:10–11; Jn 1:45–50; 6:63; Acts 8:34–38; 16:13–34; Ro 1:16; 10:17)
4. Though conversion is a divine miracle that cannot be understood through psychological observation and introspection, Scripture speaks of distinct “inner motions” of the heart, namely contrition* and faith; when these are present, conversion has taken place; these inner motions are described by dogmaticians by the words motus interni, quibus conversio absolvitur (Is 42:3; Mk 9:24). Contrition does not form a beginning of, or half of, conversion, nor does it produce a better spiritual condition in the sinner, since of itself it can only lead to despair (2 Co 7:10); but it is the indispensable preparation for conversion. The converted person may be sure of his conversion. (2 Co 13:5; 1 Jn 3:14)
5. Conversion is sometimes spoken of as being gradual; but in that case the term is used in a wide sense to include certain outward acts that commonly precede conversion and only prepare for conversion. Conversion proper is the matter of an instant, the moment when the Holy Spirit through means of grace* engenders faith in a contrite heart.
6. Since God's mighty power (2 Co 4:6; Eph 1:19) works through means in conversion, it can be resisted. (Mt 23:37; Acts 7:51)
7. Concerning the fact that some passages of Scripture speak of God's converting man, others of man's converting himself (Jer 24:7; 31:18; Acts 3:19), J. W. Baier* says: “The word 'conversion' is taken in a double sense in the Scriptures, inasmuch as at one time God is said to convert man and, at another, that man is said to convert himself, though as to the thing [itself] the action is one and the same.” (Compendium, III, 191)
8. Men may fall from grace after conversion (David, Peter, Hymenaeus, Alexander). Unless the sin against the Holy Ghost be committed, they may again be converted (“reiterated conversion”; David, Peter; Eze 18:23–32). See also Sin, The Unpardonable.
III. Effects of Conversion. Through conversion and faith the believer is made a child of God (Gl 3:26); enters the kingdom of God; is, for Christ's sake, declared just and absolved from all guilt and punishment (Ro 3:28; 8:33); has peace, boldness, confidence, comfort (Ro 5:3–5), and hope of eternal life (Ro 5:21; 8:30). The Holy Spirit, who creates justifying faith in the heart of the sinner, also, from the moment that this faith has been wrought, sets in motion the divine work of sanctification* (Ro 6:16; 8:14; 13:10) until in the ch. triumphant the divine image of perfect righteousness will be completely restored (Heb 12:23). WHW
See also Justification;Synergism;Synergistic Controversy.
First off, you can call me anything but Archibald; for I am not bald.
Second: while it is true that other beliefs move beyond the senses, I am not aware of any which moves beyond the self. Christianity meets the sinner where he or she is, and God takes on the burden of redemption Himself. The premise is simple: unlike all other beliefs, we accept that we cannot make things right with God. Rather, God makes things right for us.
It is a divine gift to accept that an almighty and perfectly just God would take the burden of punishment for sin upon Himself, rather than simply keeping the gates shut for all but those who earn their way to superiority - which is the premise of most other faiths in one form or another.
Third: we have to be careful when dealing with the concept of predestination. TULIP would have us believe that God looked upon the whole of creation and said "These I will save, Those I will condemn." For one this suggests that Paul was mistaken when he said that God would have all be saved ( 1 Tim. 2 ). For two this goes against God being perfectly just, since what justice exists if I simply was condemned from a time before my birth?
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As for Orthodox Synergy and Salvation: well, let's be careful about that. It took over an hour of discussion between myself and my Greek Orthodox wife ( and a small ton of reading on my part ) to dissect the concept of Orthodox Salvation vs Lutheran Salvation, get definitions on each side in sync, then narrow down what each of us talks about when we use certain words like "Salvation".
Orthodox talk about having been saved / are being saved / will be saved. Absolutely everything they say uses a lot of words. They're like Ents: anything worth saying is worth taking a very long time.
Short form: if you take the time to understand everything that is said in the manner that is intended, it is likely that we and the Orthodox are more alike than we are different.
__________________ Any chance of salvation - someone died for me; washed in blood, he cared enough to pity me.
Its not about choice but about conviction. God's divine intervention BOTH WAYS because all circumstances can turn or don't turn people to God. People may despise it instead of embracing it. Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. The Word of God stresses the importance of conviction and concern and repentance when being born from above by the Spirit of God, not from man's within. This is the same word Jesus used in John 3:3 when He told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again (anothen, lit. "from above"). God came from above and regenerates me, gave me life. And in the process cleanses my old dead life so that regeneration which is called a washing that I became a new creature from above. I didn't save myself from within but God saved me from above.
God reveals Himself to us as a "birth," bringing forth a new creation by the regenerating act of the Holy Spirit inside our sinful nature that we live in. In regenerating act, 'we' are that whosoever will may come to Christ while the other is that before anyone can come there must have been a previous work done our hearts by the sovereign operation of God through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Its not about choice because, without the Spirit's help, and believe saving on Christ by a sudden decision of the will, is wholly contrary to the teachings of the Bible. According to the teachings of Christ, none of us will or can come and believe unless there has been done within a us a prevenient work of God enabling our heart to respond. The spiritual birth, like the natural one, is unique, separate experience shared in by no one. Biblical truth is a spiritual experience and can be grasped in its inner essence only as the Spirit of truth enlightens our hearts and teaches us in the deep into our souls. Salvation is something that takes place and becomes known inside of us and salvation is redemption appropriated by faith that only the Holy Spirit can provide.
What I think you're saying is that only the Holy Spirit can turn our hearts to God (I totally agree with that!), but that no response towards God is possible on our part? That our only possible response would be if we turned away from God - that would be our working?
Exactly.
If that's true - then wouldn't that be saying in essence that God only saves those He chooses, and He chooses not to save others? Because if He chooses to draw some to Him and not allow them to turn away, then He must be choosing to allow others to turn away. Which seems like predestination, or limited atonement, or one of those TULIP things.
Originally Posted by LutheranMafia
So is it false to say that the Holy Spirit tries to act on the unrepentant, but they choose to refuse? Where does their choice come in? (An echo of MaryOfBethany's question.)
The fact that repentance originates with God does not exclude our receptivity from being a product of choice.
Think of it in terms of your left arm. You don't have to choose to receive it because you already possess it. It's already yours. The only real choice that you can make is to cut it off by your own actions. Your actions didn't put it there, that was done for you. But your own actions can remove it if you so choose.
Christ died for all sin of all time and of all people. Our faith is ours by His doing. Those who are not saved are those who by their own doing choose to reject it. They are damned by their own actions.
Now, some may say "We can choose not to reject." But even that is an act of repentance that the Holy Spirit works in us, so it isn't an active choice that we make at all. It's made for us by God.
Just for clarification, only the first paragraph of CantateDomino's long post above is from the Small Catechism. (The way it is posted, it appears as if all of it is).
Thanks for posting that, CD. Where is the rest from?
__________________
"I believe that many who find that 'nothing happens' when they sit down,
or kneel down, to a book of devotion, would find that the heart sings unbidden
while they are working their way through a tough bit of theology
with a pipe in their teeth [or in my case, a glass of port by my side]
From the Christian Cyclopedia on the LCMS website:
[…]
3. Conversion in the narrower sense is essentially the bestowal of faith (donatio fidei) in God's promise of salvation for Christ's sake. It takes place in the heart and consists in this, that a heart, broken and contrite because of sin, comes to faith in Christ and trusts in Christ for grace and forgiveness (Acts 11:21). It takes place when the Holy Spirit engenders faith in the hearts of penitents through the Word of God (Law and Gospel) and the Sacraments. (Is 55:10–11; Jn 1:45–50; 6:63; Acts 8:34–38; 16:13–34; Ro 1:16; 10:17)
There it is again, the assertion that contrition comes before faith. What happened to faith coming first?
I noticed in this past year that it was not contrition but rather being freed from depression that restored my faith. I had a very severe crisis of faith because my career appeared to be going down the tubes. When things started to improve and I found another path causing my intense depression to lift, my faith suddenly snapped back. The prozac may have played a role too.
This left me wondering about Sole Fide, since it seemed like my mood came before my faith, just as these statements about contrition coming before faith has me confused about Sola Fide.
I’m still asking myself the question, does faith really come first like I always thought.
__________________
More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of.
-Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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4. Though conversion is a divine miracle that cannot be understood through psychological observation and introspection, Scripture speaks of distinct “inner motions” of the heart, namely contrition* and faith; when these are present, conversion has taken place; these inner motions are described by dogmaticians by the words motus interni, quibus conversio absolvitur (Is 42:3; Mk 9:24). Contrition does not form a beginning of, or half of, conversion, nor does it produce a better spiritual condition in the sinner, since of itself it can only lead to despair (2 Co 7:10); but it is the indispensable preparation for conversion. The converted person may be sure of his conversion. (2 Co 13:5; 1 Jn 3:14)
It seems to me like this is one of the mysteries of God. Contrition being the "indispensable preparation" for conversion, yet not having a cause and effect relationship or a sequential occurance relationship to the granting of faith.
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