I'm going to try and be careful just how I say this.
Let's examine Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB).
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
This, among many other verses, state that salvation is by faith alone, in conjunction with other verses such as Romans 3:28, 5:1, and Galatians 3:24. If you look at the verse, even the faith didn't come from you. Faith is the gift of God. When God saves a man, he has no boasting rights whatsoever.
Though at the same time, the very next verse gets skipped over. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
The truth is, as Christians, we are to do good works. Looking at this verse, we are described as being a "workmanship" of God. Imagine taking a marble block and making a statue out of it; that is what God does with us. Our intent in the end is a statue, and God's intent, in part and according to this verse, is to do good works. The end idea is that we look how God wants us to look, and he does this throughout our lives. That includes weeding out sin and pressing on towards good works; you are not doing these to get saved, but you are doing it because you are saved.
But what about those passages you mentioned? Well, Jesus is in fact exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. That's really the point of the Sermon on the Mount. You notice how many times he says, "It is said... but I say to you..."? He'd name what the Pharisees would do, then he would name God's moral law. For example with the adultery, the Pharisees believed that they could divorce for any reason so long as they gave her a certificate of divorce, and because of that certificate they were justified, but Jesus said, "No you are not. According to the law of God, you are only committing adultery." The Pharisees had no problem holding onto secret sins so long as everyone in the public perceived them as being righteous and perfectly observant of all their manmade rules, but Christ saw they had many secret sins. That is why Jesus said to everyone (because all the people looked at the Pharisees as being models of righteousness), "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven." That's a shock!! The Pharisees can't make it?? Well, Lord know I can't make it then!
The problem was not that they weren't following all the rules; the problem was that what God meant by the law never got into their hearts. For example, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." That was not meant to mean, "If someone injures you, you are fully justified in injuring them back for the same amount." No, the intention was, "If someone wrongs you, don't seek compensation any higher than the state of the injury, but be gracious and only take what you need." Two completely different attitudes, and usually in our courts, we go way beyond this.
Cut off your hand? Don't spare your sins. You may think that your secret sin over here is safe, but don't lie to yourself; cut it out. Don't mess with it! The Pharisees had many secret sins that the public wasn't aware of, but Jesus knew them, and their external appearances meant nothing to Him. He knew the bones that laid in the whitewashed sarcophagus.
Notice that in the middle of all these, "You have heard... but I say..."? He throws in these words in Matthew 5:48: "You shall be perfect, as I am perfect." Perfect?? Are you kidding?? The word there is the Greek work teleios, and it does not mean perfectly sinless. It can all mean mature (in physique or moral development), complete, and sometimes it is translated as holy. In context, Jesus is telling the listeners not to do as the Pharisees do, finding the loopholes in the law to justify themselves, but to understand that what God wants is for them to mature in their understanding of right and wrong, getting rid of sin, growing in maturity in respect to others, and becoming that workmanship that God had intended all along. So Jesus is taking away all credibility from the external, and bringing it all into the heart; in public or behind closed doors, it doesn't matter. Be mature and complete in understanding of such things.
“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.
It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. - Matthew 5:27-30 (NLT)
How do you reconcile this passage of Scripture with salvation by grace through faith alone? How can one claim that one has salvation and then commits adultery?
If salvation and right standing with God is a gift, how then does hell still hang in the balance simply over a lustful look? If one has excepted this free GIFT, than one will not lust= act. In other words if you play with fire you will get burnt. So! how do you not get burnt?
Jesus saying “But I say” ,By this Jesus is saying; “I am going to add my interruption on this scripture”.
The act of adultery starts in the eyes. If someone looks long enough it will move to the flesh. He is saying don’t look and you wont move to the next steep. “adultery”
__________________ The flesh revels in the soul’s demise. ---- Prov 6 :23 "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life. "
1 John 1:6-7 "If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Yeshua, his Son, purifies us from all sin." ----
The Evil one hides in our secrets. Reveal our secrets, and we reveal the Evil one and he flees
“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.
It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. - Matthew 5:27-30 (NLT)
How do you reconcile this passage of Scripture with salvation by grace through faith alone?
If salvation and right standing with God is a gift, how then does hell still hang in the balance simply over a lustful look?
You are reading too much into that.
Hell can be also called difficult times we go through. And you see that word commonly used in exactly that way.
People can think they have knowledge, detect sin in themselves, and then throw that knowledge out seeing it is in error. That is, in a sense, making yourself lose some of what you thought was "sight". But it wasn't.
Jesus makes the blind see. But the Pharisees thought they could see, and they couldn't, so He couldn't make them see.
They should have thrown out what they thought was knowledge... then they would have had a better chance at really seeing.
well , thi s whole passage is Jesus 'upping the ante'.
if he really literally mean this, then im sure most people would be on a braille computer right now....or maybe have to hire somebody because they got no hand either.
we really should be seeing sooooooooooooomany white sticks!!!!!!
Jesus is just proving.....man cant keep the law!!!!!
no man can
only God can
10 commandments speak of teh very nature of God Himself
and the pharisees ha dthis attitude that they were somehow 'keeping the law'
so here, Jesus is now changing it, upping the stakes ...to say.....ok....you 've nevr loooked at a woman????!!!!
hypocrites!!!
its like he's saying...you set yourselves up as gods to teh people, like you aint so human, and the same 'germ' of sin nature isnt in you
“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.
It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. - Matthew 5:27-30 (NLT)
How do you reconcile this passage of Scripture with salvation by grace through faith alone?
If salvation and right standing with God is a gift, how then does hell still hang in the balance simply over a lustful look?
How do I reconcile it with salvation by grace?
If you read the passage in it's entirety, ending two chapters later, you will find that it has nothing to do with salvation by grace.
But it is in fact the Master Teacher demonstrating to his audience that there is nothing they could do to be 'right' in the eyes of the law.
__________________
Assumption Theology - reading a verse or verses and then assuming what they mean, not based on what the verses are actually saying, but what you interpret them as meaning.
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Not quite. When you die, your body dies. It is not "healed". It "dies". Your spirit lives on for eternity, but your body is not "ultimately healed". It is dead.
well , thi s whole passage is Jesus 'upping the ante'.
if he really literally mean this, then im sure most people would be on a braille computer right now....or maybe have to hire somebody because they got no hand either.
we really should be seeing sooooooooooooomany white sticks!!!!!!
Jesus is just proving.....man cant keep the law!!!!!
no man can
only God can
10 commandments speak of teh very nature of God Himself
and the pharisees ha dthis attitude that they were somehow 'keeping the law'
so here, Jesus is now changing it, upping the stakes ...to say.....ok....you 've nevr loooked at a woman????!!!!
hypocrites!!!
its like he's saying...you set yourselves up as gods to teh people, like you aint so human, and the same 'germ' of sin nature isnt in you
you cant do it!!!!
no man con keep law!!!
only God can
that what s going on here i beleive
Originally Posted by Frogster
Actually to me,Jesus made things harder in Matt 5,now I really need justification by faith.
Originally Posted by Balance
How do I reconcile it with salvation by grace?
If you read the passage in it's entirety, ending two chapters later, you will find that it has nothing to do with salvation by grace.
But it is in fact the Master Teacher demonstrating to his audience that there is nothing they could do to be 'right' in the eyes of the law.
I really like these answers!
I think when we back away and look at it for what it really is, it's the only way to reconcile the two concepts.
Jesus on the sermon on the mount gave a beautiful exposition of the spirit of the law, demonstrating in fine detail that none of us can keep it, slamming the door shut on self righteousness to introduce a righteousness that comes by faith.
Romans 10:1-13
1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. 5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the deep?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
The purpose of these words was to render every heart broken and dismayed. We are supposed to read the entirety of the SOTM and come away truely broken and aware that we have to be saved by grace through faith. Nobody can live up to the things Jesus said here. He sums it up by saying that if you are going to be saved by works, then you are going to have be be just as righteous as God in heaven.
Any takers?
But if you read the passage carefully, you will see that Jesus said that they committed adultery with the women in their heart, which I read to mean their unregenerate spirit. In this light, we understand that He was telling them that they needed to be born again because their old heart was corrupt and could not achieve holiness. This also plays into His words about good trees and evil trees. If you are an evil tree (whicl all unregenerates were/are) then you cannot do good and need to be regenerated into a good tree.
Of course we have had this discussion before. Those of you who think that your spirit is still unregenerate and sinful are trapped by Jesus's words here. You are still condemned by His words becuase you thnk you are commiting adultery (and murdering) from your heart. Your own theology is self destructive and you are essentially no better off (from a theological postion) than those He was talking to in these passages.
Last edited by MrBojangles; 6th November 2009 at 03:24 PM.
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