In other discussions, some LDS posters have stated that those who will become gods will never be equal to God.
I don't know how I failed to previously notice the wording of Doctrine and Covenants 76:95.
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.
How can it be claimed that LDS do not believe that those who will become Gods will not be equal to God, when it is stated in LDS scriptures that they will be equal to Him in power, and might, and dominion?
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Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:12-14
In other discussions, some LDS posters have stated that those who will become gods will never be equal to God.
I don't know how I failed to previously notice the wording of Doctrine and Covenants 76:95.
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.
How can it be claimed that LDS do not believe that those who will become Gods will not be equal to God, when it is stated in LDS scriptures that they will be equal to Him in power, and might, and dominion?
Originally it was taught that they would be equal to God. One of the other spirit sons of God, Jesus, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Now it is taught that as LDS progress, God also progresses and is always ahead of his sons and daughters. So when the exalted LDS becomes as God is now, Heavenly Father will have advanced beyond that.
What evidence do we have that God does not jealously guard his position and power, but rather seeks to see that his children rise up to his position of glory, knowledge, and power that he has obtained (see Moses 1:39)?
(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 155)
Originally it was taught that they would be equal to God. One of the other spirit sons of God, Jesus, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Now it is taught that as LDS progress, God also progresses and is always ahead of his sons and daughters. So when the exalted LDS becomes as God is now, Heavenly Father will have advanced beyond that.
That isn't what D&C 76 states. It is said that some will inherit the fullness of the Father, and be equal in power, and might, and dominion. One can't be equal if the bar is continually raised.
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Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:12-14
Last edited by skylark1; 4th November 2009 at 02:49 PM.
Reason: fix tags
In other discussions, some LDS posters have stated that those who will become gods will never be equal to God.
I don't know how I failed to previously notice the wording of Doctrine and Covenants 76:95.
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.
How can it be claimed that LDS do not believe that those who will become Gods will not be equal to God, when it is stated in LDS scriptures that they will be equal to Him in power, and might, and dominion?
Hey skylark1,
Here is another reference from the Doctrine and Covenants:
And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him [Christ]. (D&C 88:107)
One does not need to go to the plain language of modern LDS scripture gain an understanding of how we view exaltation. Our beliefs are in harmony with the Biblical record in this regard:
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Rom. 8:16-17)
We believe that one of the perfect characteristics of God, is his perfect love for his children. He loves us so much that he will withhold nothing from us, if we will but follow the path that leads us there - which path is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Through the grace of Christ, the faithful will be joint heirs with Christ. The Bible establishes that. The scriptures also make it completely clear that we will worship God forever, so our interpretation has to take the whole of the record into account. This sums up how we feel pretty well:
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (Rev. 21:6-7)
We will be equal in power, might, and dominion - how else can we "inherit all things" as the Bible teaches? Yet, we will worship God and the Lamb forever. First among equals, so to speak.
Originally it was taught that they would be equal to God. One of the other spirit sons of God, Jesus, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Now it is taught that as LDS progress, God also progresses and is always ahead of his sons and daughters. So when the exalted LDS becomes as God is now, Heavenly Father will have advanced beyond that. [/indent]That isn't what D&C 76 states. It is said that some will inherit the fullness of the Father, and be equal in power, and might, and dominion. One can't be equal if the bar is continually raised.
You are correct. In 1984, it seems to have been okay to become equal with God the Father. If you get to the top of the ladder where God is how does he advance further up the ladder that has no more rungs?
"When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel-you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave."
Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 307
Originally it was taught that they would be equal to God. One of the other spirit sons of God, Jesus, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Now it is taught that as LDS progress, God also progresses and is always ahead of his sons and daughters. So when the exalted LDS becomes as God is now, Heavenly Father will have advanced beyond that.
Hey Phoebe,
We do not teach that God is progressing in his characteristics. The Eternal God is completely perfect in all of His characteristics. He only increases in glory, as more of his spirit children receive immortality and eternal life.
And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1:37-39)
"[T]he soul—the mind of man—the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation.... We say that God himself is a self-existent being.... Man does exist upon the same principles.... The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself.... Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it had a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had not beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven."
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse, 1844
"Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility."
Spencer W. Kimball, “The Abundant Life,” Ensign, July 1978, p. 3
"We say to all who have joined the Church, keep all that is noble, good, and uplifting in your culture and personal identity. However, under the authority and power of the keys of the priesthood, all differences yield as we seek to become heirs to the kingdom of God, unite in following those who have the keys of the priesthood, and seek the divinity within us."
James E. Faust, “Heirs to the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, May 1995, p. 61
"[T]he soul—the mind of man—the immortal spirit. Where did it come from? All learned men and doctors of divinity say that God created it in the beginning; but it is not so: the very idea lessens man in my estimation.... We say that God himself is a self-existent being.... Man does exist upon the same principles.... The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself.... Is it logical to say that the intelligence of spirits is immortal, and yet that it had a beginning? The intelligence of spirits had not beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic. That which has a beginning may have an end. There never was a time when there were not spirits; for they are co-equal [co-eternal] with our Father in heaven."
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse, 1844
"Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility."
Spencer W. Kimball, “The Abundant Life,” Ensign, July 1978, p. 3
"We say to all who have joined the Church, keep all that is noble, good, and uplifting in your culture and personal identity. However, under the authority and power of the keys of the priesthood, all differences yield as we seek to become heirs to the kingdom of God, unite in following those who have the keys of the priesthood, and seek the divinity within us."
James E. Faust, “Heirs to the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, May 1995, p. 61
Not meaning to be rude, but is there a point in there that we should respond to? Those are great quotes.
We do not teach that God is progressing in his characteristics. The Eternal God is completely perfect in all of His characteristics. He only increases in glory, as more of his spirit children receive immortality and eternal life.
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