Equal to God?

skylark1 · #41 5th November 2009, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Zechariah

No they do not. Certainly not, at least, unless one fragments LDS theology, instead of seeing and understanding it in its whole.

I am not "fragmenting" LDS theology. As Vanhin pointed out, this is mentioned elsewhere in LDS scriptures.

Don't forget, Vanhin also said, "...those who are exalted will become equal to God in power, dominion, and might, yet we will worship God and the Lamb forever."

I have not forgotten what he posted earlier today.

And this, because, just as Ran said, "God will always be our God. In that sense, we will never be His equal."

As I have noted and Vanhin has added, LDS scripture does clearly state that some will be made equal to him.

Moodshadow · #42 5th November 2009, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Doc T

Not time to flesh this thought out at the moment. Perhaps more later. We only become equal to God in power, might and dominion because God shares with us His power, might and dominion. If it were not for His sharing of these things we would not possess them. That makes us dependent on Him and we will always worship Him and be subject to Him. This is what I believe Ran to say and that is my understanding. It does not contradict either verses in the D&C.Doc~

I have nothing and you are a millionaire. Being totally dependent, on my own I could not earn my own fortune, but you are gracious and share your fortune with me, so now I am no longer dependent on you or anyone else. Obviously you are not talking about money or wealth at all and I understand that, but the way you've explained this doesn't agree with what I remember having learned when I was in the LDS church - which was that you have to earn your way to godhood, just as God did before. But once you have earned your way there, you are His equal, having earned it exactly as He did.

Ran77 · #43 5th November 2009, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by Doc T

Not time to flesh this thought out at the moment. Perhaps more later. We only become equal to God in power, might and dominion because God shares with us His power, might and dominion. If it were not for His sharing of these things we would not possess them. That makes us dependent on Him and we will always worship Him and be subject to Him. This is what I believe Ran to say and that is my understanding. It does not contradict either verses in the D&C.

Doc

~

Thanks Doc, that is correct.

skylark1 · #44 5th November 2009, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ran77

Thanks Doc, that is correct.

I still see that the verses from D&C 76 and 88 state that some will be equal to God. To claim that we will never be his equal contradicts this.

Ran77 · #45 5th November 2009, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Moodshadow

I have nothing and you are a millionaire. Being totally dependent, on my own I could not earn my own fortune, but you are gracious and share your fortune with me, so now I am no longer dependent on you or anyone else. Obviously you are not talking about money or wealth at all and I understand that, but the way you've explained this doesn't agree with what I remember having learned when I was in the LDS church - which was that you have to earn your way to godhood, just as God did before. But once you have earned your way there, you are His equal, having earned it exactly as He did.

There seem to be a lot of things that are not as you "remember" it when you were LDS. I have never, except from you, heard the explanation that you are God's equal because you earned it exactly as He did. That seems to be your spin on it rather than LDS doctrine.

Detai · #46 5th November 2009, 10:21 AM

You are not going to believe this, but they have an equivalent of this thread on youtube.

YouTube - Monty Python - Argument Clinic

Phoebe Ann · #47 5th November 2009, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Ran77

There seem to be a lot of things that are not as you "remember" it when you were LDS. I have never, except from you, heard the explanation that you are God's equal because you earned it exactly as He did. That seems to be your spin on it rather than LDS doctrine.

Well, you know, Ran, what is taught is not always within your hearing nor is every member of the LDS church fully alert each and every time he attends a meeting.
However, Moodshadow is not just putting a spin on this teaching. You shouldn't accuse people of that based merely on the fact that you did not hear it.

Have you ever felt like Frank? Is it easy for us to sometimes forget the actual objectives that we have in the Church? Do we ever get busy attending meetings, paying tithing, holding home evenings, and trying to do all the rest that God has required that we forget what our ultimate destiny can be if we remain faithful?

1 God Was Once a Man
As We Are Now
When he was a young man, Lorenzo Snow was promised by the Lord through the Patriarch to the Church that through obedience to the gospel he could become as great as God, “and you cannot wish to be greater”(Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, pp. 9-10).

President Lorenzo Snow recorded this experience that occurred when he was still a young elder: “The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun shone at noon-day, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man.” Elder Snow expressed this new found understanding in these words: “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be.” Later the Prophet Joseph Smith assured him: “Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you” (quoted by LeRoi C. Snow, in “Devotion to Divine Inspiration,” Improvement Era, June 1919, pp. 651-56).

Phoebe Ann · #48 5th November 2009, 11:19 AM

Or, Ran, is how God came to godhood that is bothering you?

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through....

“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been a finite being” (Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290).

Detai · #49 5th November 2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by skylark1

In other discussions, some LDS posters have stated that those who will become gods will never be equal to God.

Equal to God? I'm already better than a God who

Plays Favorites

Tortures His Children

Encourages fighting and bickering among his children

Says to kill those who don't convert

skylark1 · #50 5th November 2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Detai

You are not going to believe this, but they have an equivalent of this thread on youtube.

Hi Detai,

There is no need to mock me, the originator of this thread.

First of all, I asked the question because of an LDS article that I read. Second, LDS saying that no one will ever be equal to God, when LDS scipture clearly states that they will be is a contradictory message. I think that Vanhin's approach to the subject does not send this contradictory message.

Third, when one LDS poster absolutely refuses to speak to me in order to demonstrate his utter contempt and disrespect towards me, yet posts in this thread that I started, it would not surprise me if there were miscommunications. It can be difficult to communicate when one person insists on ignoring another.