While I'm visiting your fair forums I just thought I'd ask a few questions about god and xtianity that I feel I have never really recieved a proper answer to (although you've probably all heard them a million times!)...
1) Is it more important to be an xtian or to be good? (I keep getting mixed answers to this)
2) I am aware that Leviticus condemns homosexuality, and that as a result many xtians consider homosexuality a sin. But why is the fact that Leviticus also condomns eating shellfish, cutting your hair and condons slavery. Why are all these except the homosexuality passage overlooked?
And erm...I had more but have forgotten them currently, it's been a long day at work haha. Will post when I remember them.
Also I am aware that xtianity ranges from the liberal to the conservative and everyone has different interpretations of the bible, I'm looking for answers from all lines of thinking here.
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1) It's important to be good and Christian, although sometimes in Christianity, good works are seen as a sub conscious act of faith, and therefore someone doing good deeds is acting Christian, even if they do it unwittingly and unwillingly.
2) I'm a liberal, so I've no problem with homosexuality or any of those things.
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Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night.
1) Is it more important to be an xtian or to be good? (I keep getting mixed answers to this)
The answer to this is a simple one. When some one becomes a Christian they recieve God's Spirit. God does not sin. He aids and draws a Christian away from sin. No genuine christian can live a bad (sinful) life. God will not allow it. The bible puts it this way:
1Jn 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Originally Posted by RealityPixie
2) I am aware that Leviticus condemns homosexuality, and that as a result many xtians consider homosexuality a sin. But why is the fact that Leviticus also condomns eating shellfish, cutting your hair and condons slavery. Why are all these except the homosexuality passage overlooked?
Not all shell fish are good to eat some a poisionous, restricting what a person could eat could keep them from getting sick. The section about cutting of hair is in the same passage as the following:
Lev 19:27 "'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Lev 19:28 "'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
It refers to special rituals that were used in idol worship. It is probably refering to that. In other words there were ritual hair cuts, that they were not to have; because they were to be free from idol worship.
As for slavery, slavery was a part of every day life at the time the bible was written, the bible layed down laws for dealings with slaves. One of those laws was every seventh year all slaves were to be set free.
The answer to this is a simple one. When some one becomes a Christian they recieve God's Spirit. God does not sin. He aids and draws a Christian away from sin. No genuine christian can live a bad (sinful) life. God will not allow it. The bible puts it this way:
1Jn 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Not all shell fish are good to eat some a poisionous, restricting what a person could eat could keep them from getting sick. The section about cutting of hair is in the same passage as the following:
Lev 19:27 "'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Lev 19:28 "'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
It refers to special rituals that were used in idol worship. It is probably refering to that. In other words there were ritual hair cuts, that they were not to have; because they were to be free from idol worship.
As for slavery, slavery was a part of every day life at the time the bible was written, the bible layed down laws for dealings with slaves. One of those laws was every seventh year all slaves were to be set free.
So....as a pretty good and moral atheist, in the hypothetical situation of me rocking up at the pearly gates one day, would I get let in?
So...are you saying that these passages from Lev were written to be used within the cultural context of the day, and therefore have little application to the world today, or should the passages still be followed?
1) Is it more important to be an xtian or to be good? (I keep getting mixed answers to this)
It depends on what your end goal is. To be "good" is a relative term. Meaning what we consider to be good is only slightly better than the level of sin our society is willing to live with. For example there were some good SS men (Nazis) but given our society's standards today they would fall short.
God has introduced a standard in which true Righteousness can be found. The problem is none of us are "good" enough to obtain that level of righteousness on our own.
So if Heaven/righteousness is your Goal know that in God's eyes you'll never be "Good" enough to earn Heaven/Righteousness. That's why He sent His son to Die for our sin. Jesus's Blood bridges the gap between your "goodness" and God's perfect standard for righteousness.
I am aware that Leviticus condemns homosexuality, and that as a result many xtians consider homosexuality a sin. But why is the fact that Leviticus also condomns eating shellfish, cutting your hair and condons slavery. Why are all these except the homosexuality passage overlooked?
Because in the case of sexual immorality we have 9 other verses/commands to abstain from this behavior in the new testament. However we do not have any other mention to up hold the other commands you listed.
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1) Is it more important to be an xtian or to be good? (I keep getting mixed answers to this)
It depends what you mean by "good".
If you mean "good" as defined by secular human standards, then that standard will change constantly, so the question is moot. In one century, being a Xian might be analogous with being good, while in another it might be bad. It would depend on when you lived, and where, and the context that you're speaking in, etc.
If you mean "good" in the sense of the eternal, real, objective, transcendent Good, well, if you're a Xian then good = doing the will of God = being a Xian.
If you're not an Xian, and you're looking for the eternal, real, objective, transcendent Good, well, you've got some looking to do if you want to establish what "good" means.
You would need to clear up your question in order to get a coherent answer to that one.
Originally Posted by RealityPixie
2) I am aware that Leviticus condemns homosexuality, and that as a result many xtians consider homosexuality a sin. But why is the fact that Leviticus also condomns eating shellfish, cutting your hair and condons slavery. Why are all these except the homosexuality passage overlooked?
You have incorrect information on several points. Here's the conservative Xian stance (liberals might have another interpretation):
On homosexuality itself:
1. We don't consider homosexuality a sin.
2. We consider fornication and adultery a sin.
3. Fornication is sexual activity before marriage. Adultery is sex outside of marriage.
4. Marriage is between one man and one woman.
5. Anyone who engages in sexual activity outside of marriage commits fornication or adultery (depending on whether they're married to someone else).
6. I.e., when a man and a woman who are not married to each other have sex, they are committing the sin of fornication or adultery. When two men have sex, ditto. When two women have sex, ditto. When three people have sex, ditto. Etc. That is the sin that should be repented of--not the "sin" of homosexuality.
On the Levitical laws:
1. We don't follow the Levitical law. That is the Old Testament--we have a New Testament (NT).
2. The NT states clearly that adultery and fornication are sins. See, as just one example, 1 Corinthians 6:9. There are several others.
3. The NT also condemns sodomy, which some Xians will say is not the same as loving homosexual sex, but Paul (author of several books of the NT) didn't make that distinction. Personally I think he referred to all homosexual sex. See Romans 1:26-27.
Note: Being homosexual doesn't make a person damned... not even committing adultery or fornication will make someone damned. These latter actions (which are definitely grievous sins) are no worse than any other sin. What matters is repentance--and its natural result, humility.
While I'm visiting your fair forums I just thought I'd ask a few questions about god and xtianity that I feel I have never really recieved a proper answer to (although you've probably all heard them a million times!)...
1) Is it more important to be an xtian or to be good? (I keep getting mixed answers to this)
It's important that we become better - that we learn to live as "citizens of heaven" for when heaven comes to earth. Being a Christian is about getting on board with that. So the two, properly understood, are inseperable.
2) I am aware that Leviticus condemns homosexuality, and that as a result many xtians consider homosexuality a sin. But why is the fact that Leviticus also condomns eating shellfish, cutting your hair and condons slavery. Why are all these except the homosexuality passage overlooked?
No-one should be quoting Leviticus as a proof text of current Christian behaviour, let alone using it to condemn non-Christians.
But, that said, historical and New Testament Christian understanding is that God's intention for sex is exclusively within monogomous, faithful, loving, chaste, hetrosexual marriage.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
So....as a pretty good and moral atheist, in the hypothetical situation of me rocking up at the pearly gates one day, would I get let in?
How have you prepared yourself to be a good citizen of the perfect Kingdom if you have spent your life denying the existance and legitimacy of the King instead of trying to understand his way of doing things, and the way that Kingdom operates?
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
My 2 cents: God wants us to love God & our neighbor as ourself (see Mark 12:29-34 but read all of Mark 12), to follow the 10 commandments, and seek the salvation of His Son (see Romans 10:9-13 but read all of Romans 10 too). What about non Christians? They are in more peril but God shows mercy as indicated in the Beatitudes (Matthew 5:1-12), the example of the good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37), the parable of sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46), see also Romans 2:11-16,Romans 9:11-16, Phillipians 4:8.
Is it more important to be a Christian or to be good? In a moral sense, the Bible teaches no one is good except God. So anyone who thinks they can be "good" in God's eyes has no knowledge of the Bible. Now a born again believer, washed by the blood of Jesus, appears perfect in the sight of God, and so as we struggle to follow Christ's example, our short-falls are covered, so we appear perfect.
Since the Law of Moses is not followed in every detail, how come its condemnation of homosexual behavior is still considered valid? Many of the moral laws were endorsed in the New Testament, so although the Law of Moses has been set aside, some of its principles remain in effect. So it is the fact that the New Testament tells us that homosexual behavior is sinful, that results in continued adherence to that part of the Law.
Is homosexual behavior a "worse" sin than say gluttony? As it affects the individual, I think not, but as it affects others (picture a homosexual predator grooming a teen-age boy) I think yes. Also, I have personally known a fellow who died of full blown AIDS, and the end of his life was very hard on his family and friends.
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