1) Is it important to be a christian and good? Yes to both. John 14:4, John 3:18-Important to be a christian. We are only good because we are saved by grace through faith-its by Christ's goodness not ours. Good works is a byproduct of saving faith. Good works alone doesn't save- Isaiah 64:6- Our goodnesss is as filthy rags. http://www.livingwaters.com/good/ Are you a good person? This is God's standard of good.
2) In the Old Testament there was a certain diet because God protected Israel as a nation like shell fish. Yes, slavery is wrong and still is just like homosexuality in the Old Testament and New Testament-Romans 1:27.
The bible interprets itself and is of no private interpretation. People like to go around reading what they want-but don't read what they don't like. Thus, cherry pick the bible.
Biblical Principles for Interpreting God’s Word
1) Follow the customary usages of the language. 2) Commit no historical or cultural blunders. 3) Make Christ central in all interpretations. 4) Be conscious of context. 5) Interpret by the analogy of the faith. 6) Recognize the progress of relevation. 7) Grant one interpretation to each phrase. 8) Choose the common sense alternative. 9) Never invent explanations to silent areas of scripture. 10) Never theorize to accommodate man’s views or religion or modern science. 11) Never base a doctrine on one passage of scripture.
__________________ Sola Scriptura is Eternal Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, 2 Peter 1:20. "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams (October 11, 1798). Roe vs. Wade - 45 million **Proverbs 6:16-17 - states that there are seven things that are an abomination to the Lord; one of them is the shedding of innocentblood. The B.O. Must Go! Huckabee in 2012
Last edited by salida; 4th November 2009 at 09:01 PM.
The answer to this is a simple one. When some one becomes a Christian they recieve God's Spirit. God does not sin. He aids and draws a Christian away from sin. No genuine christian can live a bad (sinful) life. God will not allow it. The bible puts it this way:
1Jn 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
So what about xtian criminals? Or will they get into heaven anyway? I dunno, using that line of logic, if they know they are going to get inot heaven anyway, what's to stop an xtian from committing murder? Can I really trust an xtian when they don't have to answer for their sins?
No-one should be quoting Leviticus as a proof text of current Christian behaviour, let alone using it to condemn non-Christians
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Sorry, I'm not trying to condemn, just ask legit questions. Very often when xtians speak out against homosexuality they do so using the lev quote, so I'm questioning rather than condemning.
How have you prepared yourself to be a good citizen of the perfect Kingdom if you have spent your life denying the existance and legitimacy of the King instead of trying to understand his way of doing things, and the way that Kingdom operates?
I don't expect to get into heaven any more than I expect to find the entrance to Narnia I posed the question because I feel it reveales more about the judger than the judged.
Is homosexual behavior a "worse" sin than say gluttony? As it affects the individual, I think not, but as it affects others (picture a homosexual predator grooming a teen-age boy) I think yes. Also, I have personally known a fellow who died of full blown AIDS, and the end of his life was very hard on his family and friends.
Sorry but...I have read a statistic revealing that the vast majority of kiddie-fiddlers were straight (I can cite this if you want but can't be bothered finding it right now). Also AIDS is huge within the staright community...and using that logic, is driving a car a sin? I know lots of people who have died in car accidents, and the effect on their families was terrible.
And let me clarify what I mean by 'good'....I mean fulfilling all of the moral requirements of the bible (not lying, stealing, cheating, etc) but not actually believeing in god, or following another religion.
Oh and another question: I can understand why sex outside of marriage would be forbidden back in the day, but now that we have contraceptives and condoms and that to stop unwanted preganancy/STI's, please explain why it is forbidden now? (Note: I mean in a loving, exclusive relationship, not casual sex)
Yet again, I'm not trying to be all like OMG XTIANZ R STOOPID!!!!!!!!@@@@ONEONE. Just posing what I feel are legit questions in order to broaden my own understanding. I may disagree with xtianity, but I kinda feel like it's my obligation as a citizen of the world to understand how other people think and perceive such issues.
1. To live a Christian life is the very definition of "good". In so far as one is good their life will approximate the Christian life even if they do not acknowledge themselves to be Christian.
2. The Jewish dietary rules are not binding on Christians. The New Testament points this out. The New Testament and the Fathers of the Church teach that sex between those of the same sex is a falling short of the mark.
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"Only love overcomes the fragmentation of human nature."
St Maximus the Confessor
"For one who loves transforms all that he loves into himself, while one who hates loses even what he has. One who loves belongs to the loved one while one who hates does not even belong to himself. "
So what about xtian criminals? Or will they get into heaven anyway?
It's not about "going to heaven", it's about being put right in and for a world put right.
I dunno, using that line of logic, if they know they are going to get inot heaven anyway, what's to stop an xtian from committing murder?
A distant threat of punishment is not a good way of changing behavior. Behaviours are best changed by coming alongside people, showing them a better way of being, and walking along with them while they gradually, and with setbacks, take up that way. That's what Jesus did.
Can I really trust an xtian when they don't have to answer for their sins?
Christians do have to answer for their work (1 Cor 3).
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Sorry, I'm not trying to condemn, just ask legit questions. Very often when xtians speak out against homosexuality they do so using the lev quote, so I'm questioning rather than condemning.
Clearly I wasnt' clear. The thoughtful Christian response to homosexuality is not based in quoting Leviticus. Those Christians who do are misusing the Leviticus as a proof-text. Serious Christian objection is not dependent on Leviticus but on Paul and more broadly on the bigger picture of marriage and sexual ethics.
I don't expect to get into heaven any more than I expect to find the entrance to Narnia I posed the question because I feel it reveales more about the judger than the judged.
The trouble is what you think it reveals is dependent on the distorted picture of what it is about. It's not about a system of arbitrary punishment arbitrarly waved, but about God putting right his creation and us in and for that creation. God's kingdom will come "on earth as it is in heaven" and the point of being Christian is to live now as though that had already happened. Not just trying to be good (by some vague definition) now, but living now as though Jesus kingdom were fully in effect. To turn down Roman citizenship when offered and then try to take it up when the Emperor suddenly arrives is a bit of a nonsense.
And let me clarify what I mean by 'good'....I mean fulfilling all of the moral requirements of the bible (not lying, stealing, cheating, etc) but not actually believeing in god, or following another religion.
According to Judeo/Christian thinking all sin and evil is the result of idolatory. To say "I'm good but I don't worship God" is to claim to be free of all the symptoms without doing anything about the disease.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
It's not about "going to heaven", it's about being put right in and for a world put right.
Actually yeah my question was regarding who gets into heaven and who goes to hell.
So ok, lets use myself as an example so we can apply this to the real world instead of using airy-fairy definitions. Here's a little about me:
-I am an atheist and apply careful thought and reason to my actions
-I believe in justice and rights (humanism)
-I'm studying for a career in youth work (basically dedicating my life to helping others)
-I give to charity and volunteer for various causes
-I perform random acts of kindness
-I have never cheated in a relationship
-I have never stolen and try not to lie
-I am good and loyal to my family and friends and always help out when needed.
-I do my best to live an environmentally healthy lifestyle
-I am not married never have been, and am not a virgin
-I am bisexual but am in a loving exclusive relationship
So that's basically some things about me. I'm not exactly an angel by I try my best to be 'good'. Will I be disqualified from heaven? Or, if I rock up there when I kick the bucket will it mean more to god that I tried to be the best person I could, but just wasn't presented with enough evidence to justify belief? And further, so long as we follow such morals and ethics, why would god care if we believe in him or not? Just sounds a bit petty and jealous to me...why is god so needy that he needs the whole world to love him or he'll make them burn in pain for eternity? Doesn't sound like the most loving of guys...
Actually yeah my question was regarding who gets into heaven and who goes to hell.
And that's half the problem - the Christian hope is not about getting to heaven verses hell. That is a popular but gross distortion of it. The Judeo/Christian hope is for God to put all creation right and resurrect his people into that "New Heavens and New Earth" not to "go to heaven when I die". Not for us to go to heaven, but for heaven to come to earth.
In some sense all that does not choose to be part of that must be excluded - call that exclusion "hell" if you want, but the medieval picture of such is way off.
Given all of that your question becomes somewhat non-sensical, and your conclusions about God meaningless because they are based of false premises.
__________________ Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us.
(++Desmond Tutu)
Given all of that your question becomes somewhat non-sensical, and your conclusions about God meaningless because they are based of false premises.
I don't think my questions are non-sensical, and I only base my premises on what I have learned about xtianity from xtians themselves (10 years in baptist education). I was always taught that we either go to heaven or hell. So sorry, I'm only basing my questions on what other xtains have said. In light of this, if I've only ever been taught that it's heaven or hell, would the question of who goes to which be quite valid?
Last edited by RealityPixie; 5th November 2009 at 12:30 AM.
Reason: Spelling :P
1) Is it more important to be an xtian or to be good? (I keep getting mixed answers to this)
2) I am aware that Leviticus condemns homosexuality, and that as a result many xtians consider homosexuality a sin. But why is the fact that Leviticus also condomns eating shellfish, cutting your hair and condons slavery. Why are all these except the homosexuality passage overlooked?
Hi RP, since being "good" will only get you to a ticket to heaven if you are PERFECTLY good your entire life (no sins whatsoever ... and only one man in history has ever been able to truthfully make that claim), I would have to say that being a Christian is more important if Heaven is your desired destination.
As far as the homosexuality thing goes, yes, the church considers homosexual acts to be sinful based on passages from Leviticus (as well as from a number of other books, especially Romans and 1 Corinthians in the NT). Please understand though, homosexuals who TRULY feel guilty about their sin and repent of it before God are as free to enter Heaven as any other sinning Christian (that's all of us, BTW) is who has repented and been forgiven of their sin, just like a former thief or glutton or murderer would be. The real problem isn't that the church is singling out homosexuals as being somehow worse than other sinners, it's that many homosexuals want the church to single out this one sin and give it a pass.
--David
Last edited by DaLeKo; 5th November 2009 at 01:55 AM.
@ DaLeKo: Thankyou for answering my questions openly and honestly without trying to run rings around them and then try to brush them off as not making sense. I do also appreciate everyone elses imput
I don't think my questions are non-sensical, and I only base my premises on what I have learned about xtianity from xtians themselves (10 years in baptist education). I was always taught that we either go to heaven or hell. So sorry, I'm only basing my questions on what other xtains have said. In light of this, if I've only ever been taught that it's heaven or hell, would the question of who goes to which be quite valid?
We will either go to heaven or hell; the Lord will save Christians who follow him in love, faith, & hope (1 Corinthians 13:13) & others that He knows (but we cannot presume to know) within the Beatitudes etc. (so there is a good probability that Ghandi is, or will be, in heaven but I cannot persume to say that is so) this must be one reason why Christ calls us to witness His word in some way or another. We can never be assured or justified in our works but we live our salvation (to sanctification) in good works (see Ephesians 2:8-10). The martyred Lutheran priest (opponent of Hitler in WW II) Dietrich Bonhoeffer preached how justification and sanctification work, "Justification is the new creation of the new man and sanctification his preservation until the day of Jesus Christ." (Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship from chptr 31, The Saints).
I posed the question because I feel it reveales more about the judger than the judged.
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