| Messianic Judaism A forum for Messianic Jews and Gentiles |
 | 
4th November 2009, 05:19 AM
|  | 1 John 1:9
27      
 | | Join Date: 9th April 2007 Location: Richmond
Posts: 2,626
Blessings: 64,638 My Mood 
Reps: 315,242,603,044,083 (power: 315,242,603,051) | | | Four beasts of Daniel
Can anyone provide me with any information from secular or peer-reviewed sources that ties the four beasts of the book of daniel to their specific empires? Thanks.
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
4th November 2009, 06:48 AM
| | Veteran
 
| | Join Date: 21st February 2009
Posts: 1,816
Blessings: 69,247
Reps: 10,847,576,709,873,882 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by RMDY  Can anyone provide me with any information from secular or peer-reviewed sources that ties the four beasts of the book of daniel to their specific empires? Thanks. Daniel8:14. He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated." [2300-167 BC= 2133 AD]
The Interpretation of the Vision
15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice from the Ulai calling, "Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision."
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. "Son of man," he said to me, "understand that the vision concerns the time of the end."
18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.
19 He said: "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns [Alexander and his four Generals] that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 "In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He [Rome Italy] will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes.[Yahshua] Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26 "The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future."  |
4th November 2009, 11:50 AM
|  | Legend
   
| | Join Date: 25th March 2004
Posts: 35,328
Blessings: 20,985,165 My Mood 
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,820) | | Originally Posted by RMDY Can anyone provide me with any information from secular or peer-reviewed sources that ties the four beasts of the book of daniel to their specific empires? Thanks.
secular sources?? There are many books that document it according to their interpretations. Most are out to prove Daniel's order of empires rising and falling.
Daniel lived in the remarkable times of the downfall of the kingdoms of both Judah and Babylon. He served as a high official in both the Babylonian government and that of its successor, the Medo-Persian Empire.
Skeptics have not challenged the content of Daniel's prophetic accuracy. Rather than admit that his words are indeed inspired, they have simply labeled his book a fraud. They claim that it was not written by Daniel in the sixth century B.C.—timing which is evident by events written of in the book—but that it was penned by an unknown author in the 160s B.C., long after many of the events prophesied in the book came to pass. This, the critics allege, is the real reason for the book's startling prophetic accuracy!
__________________
Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles. |
4th November 2009, 12:11 PM
| | Regular Member
| | Join Date: 31st July 2007
Posts: 332
Blessings: 71,801
Reps: 59,589,388,507,789 (power: 59,589,388,512) | | Originally Posted by visionary Skeptics have not challenged the content of Daniel's prophetic accuracy. Rather than admit that his words are indeed inspired, they have simply labeled his book a fraud. They claim that it was not written by Daniel in the sixth century B.C.—timing which is evident by events written of in the book—but that it was penned by an unknown author in the 160s B.C., long after many of the events prophesied in the book came to pass. This, the critics allege, is the real reason for the book's startling prophetic accuracy!
Ah yes, the arrogance of secular scholarship works exactly like this: If there is prophecy in the book, and it somehow came true, then the book must have been written after the events took place. As ridiculous as that may sound, this is exactly the main criteria used to date books such as Daniel to later dates. And then they have the nerve to accuse the religious people of being dogmatic. Sad, but true.
Kol tov,
Fremen
__________________
Jewish, Zionist, and Free Thinker. |
4th November 2009, 06:43 PM
|  | Regular Member
69    
| | Join Date: 23rd October 2003 Location: N. E. Ohio
Posts: 707
Blessings: 1,037,850 My Mood 
Reps: 142,941,631,537,020,128 (power: 142,941,631,537,029) | | Originally Posted by fremen Ah yes, the arrogance of secular scholarship works exactly like this: If there is prophecy in the book, and it somehow came true, then the book must have been written after the events took place. As ridiculous as that may sound, this is exactly the main criteria used to date books such as Daniel to later dates. And then they have the nerve to accuse the religious people of being dogmatic. Sad, but true.
Kol tov,
Fremen
Yes, the unbelieving secularists prefer to believe that Daniel was written after Antiochus (160BC.) But Daniel's prophesies run through the fall of Jerusalem (70AD). So it still remains that this is an inspired work and they have not succeeded in their attempts to "Debunk" this prophetic book IMO. |
4th November 2009, 10:43 PM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 21st February 2009
Posts: 1,816
Blessings: 69,247
Reps: 10,847,576,709,873,882 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Codger Yes, the unbelieving secularists prefer to believe that Daniel was written after Antiochus (160BC.) But Daniel's prophesies run through the fall of Jerusalem (70AD). So it still remains that this is an inspired work and they have not succeeded in their attempts to "Debunk" this prophetic book IMO. Well said Codger. |
5th November 2009, 09:39 AM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 18th August 2009
Posts: 1
Blessings: 61,750
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Clarification
I believe that Daniel was the truth author through inspiration by the Holy Spirit to write these prophesies, but the two parts you added here for clarification (Alexander and his four Generals) and (Rome Italy), where do YOU come with that. What in the prophecy declares that is who he is speaking about? I'm just curious. I've always been taught that.
Author Philip Kledzik
"Painted Rooms"
authorphilipkledzik.books.officelive.com
19 He said: "I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns [Alexander and his four Generals] that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
23 "In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He [Rome Italy] will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes.[Yahshua] Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power. |
5th November 2009, 01:25 PM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 21st February 2009
Posts: 1,816
Blessings: 69,247
Reps: 10,847,576,709,873,882 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Author Philip Kledzik [size=4]I believe that Daniel was the truth author through inspiration by the Holy Spirit to write these prophesies, but the two parts you added here for clarification (Alexander and his four Generals) and (Rome Italy), where do YOU come with that. What in the prophecy declares that is who he is speaking about? My statement is based on what has taken place in history. The lands conquered by Alexander were later divided his Generals. It was Rome that had Yahshua hung at the head priest request, and later Rome took a stand against Christianity for some time. | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
