For Christ's sacrifice 2000 years ago to be effective today for you and me, it takes a duly ordained priest saying the right words at the altar by a bloodless sacrifice.
This is, yet again, a distortion of Catholic theology.
I have to hand it to you, you are certainly consistent.
Last edited by Catherineanne; 5th November 2009 at 06:09 AM.
One of the main reasons I "went protestant" as some of my friends have called my "conversion"(I detest that word regarding switching denoms!) in the past was due to the fact that I find no support for the continual sacrifice of Christ to this day, via the Mass. I don't totally understand it, but do understand that scripture doesn't support this idea. I know some will tell me otherwise and I honestly will not debate this subject.
He died once and for all, temporaly and metaphysically, spiritually, and out of time itself...he is at the right hand of the Father now, so how can this be that He is still being sacrificed as it seems to be with some churches???? It's not so IMHO.
I will try to explain this again, not because I want to change your denomination, but in the interests of understanding.
It is not God who is subject to time, but us. We are poor, forgetful creatures, and our memories are not all that reliable. Tell God something and he will never forget it. Tell us and we may or may not.
We remember our own children's birthday every year, not because they are reborn every year, all over again, but because by doing this we are able to celebrate on a regular basis the unique gift that God gave us in our child or children. Each year, as a parent, the moment of that child's entry into the world becomes as real to us as the moment it happened, and all the years in between melt away as if they had never happened at all. In effect, whatever our age, whatever the age of our child, we can enter that moment again, and become part of it. This is one part of God's gift to us as creatures made in his image; we share his ability to be outside time to this extent.
Similarly, with the crucifixion, the Eucharist offers us the chance to enter into the moment of Christ's death, not just in memory or in memorial, like watching re-runs of our favourite film, but in actuality. In baptism we died with Christ, and rose again with him. This is not just words; it is real.
God is outside time, but we are not. It is for this reason that we enter into the passion again, time and again and again. Not to crucify Christ again, because that is meaningless. The reason is to bring into the now; this present precious moment, which is actually all that we have; the gift of the Lord; his life laid down freely for us.
We kneel at the foot of the cross, not figuratively or symbolically. We kneel at the foot of the cross. Here and now I do not bring Golgotha into my moment; I enter the moment it actually happened.
In other words, it is not God who enters our time, endlessly being crucified. It is we who enter his eternity; millions of Christians, present at Golgotha alongside St John and Our Lady, dying with the Lord. And as we die with him, so we also live in Him. Not three days later, because that is in time. Eternally.
I hope that helps, a bit.
Last edited by Catherineanne; 5th November 2009 at 06:36 AM.
The teaching is not that is another sacrifice after another and so and so on. Their teaching is that we are actually taking part of the Original sacrfice.
But you find some people, especially around here who we wont mention any names who like to play word gymastics to with what the Catholic Church teaches about the Mass as being additional sacrifices.
There not, it's reliving the actual one and only sacrifice.
Exactly so.
We do not drag Christ into our time; we enter his eternity.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies and the like.
My former parish priests and a bishop disagree with you brother.
It's a sacrifice of the Lamb of God, ie the Mass, over and over and over again in real time for all eternity.
You won't convince me of anything new my dear brother.
Thanks for listening.
This is correct.
And I think we can add a few millions, not to mention the whole company of heaven, to your parish priests and bishop.
I understand the concept of reliving Christ's sacrifice through grace and faith(and as Presbyterians we do that via the Holy Spirit by faith), but I do not undertand the literal reliving of it as the Mass does indeed partake.
Current Catholics tell me otherwise please.
God Bless you too my Methodist, but most importanlty my Brother in Christ.
Two dimensional people cannot understand three dimensions, however hard they try.
Similarly, we cannot understand eternity, or what it means. What we can understand, however, is that it does not work in the same way as our existence does. One thing, then another, then another, then another.
Eternity is from everlasting to everlasting; the eternal 'I am' of God. It is not interminable mortality, it is something else entirely.
In Christian freedom, we use either the crucifix or an empty cross and should not judge or condemn one another for using either nor not using either symbol of our Lord’s sacrifice for our sins.
Thanks for a very interesting and informative post, Y.
I don't condemn anyone for having such a thing, but I don't think it's necessary. At our church we have a plague with a verse from John, or 1 John that repeats the promise of Jesus that "I will return".
Your 'plague' is not necessary, but that does not mean it has no value, does it?
Here is my own Anglican icon of the crucifixion, painted a year or so ago. It is an image of relationship; the blessed John looks to Our Lady, she looks to her son, and the Lord looks directly to us, because in this image we are present, not just looking back in time.
As with any other icon, this is not a photograph; it is an expression of spiritual reality.
who like to play word gymastics to with what the Catholic Church teaches about the Mass as being additional sacrifices. 
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