Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Congregation > Christian Communities > Baptists
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Baptists The forum for Baptist and other similar denominations.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd November 2009, 06:30 PM
Junior Member

56 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: Mexico
 
Join Date: 22nd October 2009
Location: Mexico
Posts: 173
Blessings: 4,775
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 6,282,200,627,498 (power: 6,282,200,628)
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Holiness vs. Man-Made Rules

When Strict Rules Fail

A successful Ruckmanite pastor would post on the internet, insisting that Christians had to obey a list of man-made rules in order to live holy lives. The list included various dress codes, restrictions on music, places where Christians were not allowed to go, and others.

Another pastor, who had graduated from a strict Bible college that had commanded those same rules, wrote in to ridicule him. He had turned against those rules, and he now practiced scorn and ridicule on those who obeyed them. Later, it turned out that the second pastor was having an affair while still pastoring his church.

The first pastor went on in triumph, until his wife caught him having an affair that had lasted nine months. A few weeks later, he was back on the internet, teaching with authority, as if nothing had happened.

While there have always been scandals in the ministry, Ruckmanites (people who believe that the King James Version IS the Word of God, and it is sinful to use any other translation) have had a far heavier share than most; yet they have stricter rules than most.

Is it possible to live a holy life without obeying a list of man-made rules?
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 3rd November 2009, 07:21 PM
Senior Veteran

55 Gender: Male Faith: Baptist Member For 4 Years
 
Join Date: 19th August 2005
Posts: 4,896
Blessings: 37,250
Reps: 11,599,667,549,328 (power: 11,599,667,558)
mlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond repute
mlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond reputemlqurgw has a reputation beyond repute
A believer has a holy nature that is the seed of Christ in them. 1John 3:9 That which is born of God, the new creation, is a holy and righteous nature. It is a new man that cannot sin. Still the old man, the flesh, lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. Gal. 5:17 The old man can never be made better because it is flesh. It doesn't need to be taken to the hospital to be cured but to the cross to be crucified. True holiness is that holiness which is in Christ alone. It is that holiness which He gives us without which no man shall see the Lord. There are no degrees to righteousness or holiness. It must be perfect to be accepted. You are either holy and righteous or you aren't. If you are almost holy you ain't holy.
__________________
What is a preacher? A preacher is a nobody who tells everybody about Somebody who can save anybody.
-Scott Richardson

The only thing a man can call all his own and not given to Him by God is his sin.


Natural man is so adamant about having his will that he would make God bow to it.


When you point saints to Sinai you point them away from Christ.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 3rd November 2009, 08:40 PM
JohnDB's Avatar
Regular Member

Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 16th May 2007
Location: nashville
Posts: 1,047
Blessings: 137,144
My Mood Asleep
Reps: 271,977,662,155,033 (power: 271,977,662,159)
JohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond repute
JohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond reputeJohnDB has a reputation beyond repute
Col 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.


It appears to me that Paul has quite completely answered this question in two different places somewhat glued together...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd November 2009, 11:15 PM
Hammster's Avatar
I don't have a brain. Turns out you don't need one

41 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 2 Years Fisherman
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 5th April 2007
Location: New Haven, Missouri (when i'm not on the road)
Posts: 7,924
Blessings: 108,473
My Mood Cheerful
Reps: 5,774,339,369,235,126 (power: 5,774,339,369,245)
Hammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond repute
Hammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond reputeHammster has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Vince53 View Post
When Strict Rules Fail



A successful Ruckmanite pastor would post on the internet, insisting that Christians had to obey a list of man-made rules in order to live holy lives. The list included various dress codes, restrictions on music, places where Christians were not allowed to go, and others.



Another pastor, who had graduated from a strict Bible college that had commanded those same rules, wrote in to ridicule him. He had turned against those rules, and he now practiced scorn and ridicule on those who obeyed them. Later, it turned out that the second pastor was having an affair while still pastoring his church.



The first pastor went on in triumph, until his wife caught him having an affair that had lasted nine months. A few weeks later, he was back on the internet, teaching with authority, as if nothing had happened.



While there have always been scandals in the ministry, Ruckmanites (people who believe that the King James Version IS the Word of God, and it is sinful to use any other translation) have had a far heavier share than most; yet they have stricter rules than most.



Is it possible to live a holy life without obeying a list of man-made rules?


I guess I would have to ask what you mean by holy.

But in general, if we live lives focused on Christ and Him crucified, then He takes care of the rest.
__________________
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He justified also ; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

Closing the gap between the God I want and the God who is.
The same sun that melts the ice hardens the clay. Puritan saying
I am doing better than I deserve.

God is always bigger than our misunderstandings of Him.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd November 2009, 11:17 PM
Jeffwhosoever's Avatar
On FIRE for Jesus

45 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: United States Armor Bearer
 
Join Date: 22nd September 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 329
Blessings: 500,845
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 9,472,145,207,725 (power: 9,472,145,208)
Jeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond repute
Jeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond reputeJeffwhosoever has a reputation beyond repute
Amazing that we can't learn the lesson of the Jewish Pharisees that ruled during the time of Jesus Christ. They too were following rules - some of them "man made" but others based on the ten commandments. However, they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and most likely died and went to Hell. Now doesn't that answer the question about strict adherence to rules (without Faith and Fruits of the Spirit such as Love, patience, kindness, etc)?
__________________
For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries. (Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers, W.W. Norton, New York, 1978, p. 116)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4th November 2009, 10:35 AM
Junior Member

56 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: Mexico
 
Join Date: 22nd October 2009
Location: Mexico
Posts: 173
Blessings: 4,775
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 6,282,200,627,498 (power: 6,282,200,628)
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
How the Rules Began

It helps if you understand where, when, and how today's bunch of man-made rules began. In the early part of the twentieth century, Hollywood found that movies provided a lucrative method of introducing immorality, glamor, and worldliness to the general population. At a time of strict government laws against indecency, Hollywood fought for sin, and wealthy producers made a fortune doing so. A small number of rebellious women began wearing pants in public. Playing cards provided opportunities to gamble, drink, and neglect families.

A small number of churches objected, but these objections were not well-organized....yet.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th November 2009, 09:52 AM
Junior Member

56 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: Mexico
 
Join Date: 22nd October 2009
Location: Mexico
Posts: 173
Blessings: 4,775
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 6,282,200,627,498 (power: 6,282,200,628)
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Why Fundamentalists Accepted the Rules

"Modernists" are people within Christianity who seek to turn their church or denomination away from Christ. In the early twentieth century, they were opposed by the "fundamentalists," who believed the fundamental Christian doctrines. The fundamentalists were not a new group; Christianity had always believed in the Deity of Christ and His virgin birth, the literal Second Coming of Christ, His literal resurrection from the dead, salvation by faith alone, and the total innerrancy of the Bible.

Having rejected Christ, modernists also rejected holy living, which is a natural product of the new birth (which they also rejected). Fundamentalists over-reacted, preaching holy living (which the Bible commands) but adding man-made rules that dealt with the current situation.

They preached against movies, cards, women wearing slacks, and various other offenses. At one time, some of these rules might have made some sense. But as the decades rolled by, the "current situation" that had produced these rules changed. Fundamentalists found themselves stuck with obsolete rules that their own people did not want to obey. Their response? Preach heavily on these rules; it was the only way to keep them in force.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5th November 2009, 04:26 PM
nobdysfool's Avatar
Legendary

57 Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 23rd February 2003
Location: Northern Ohio, when I'm not on the road...
Posts: 8,218
Blessings: 56,811
My Mood Relaxed
Reps: 41,616,819,058,974 (power: 41,616,819,073)
nobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond repute
nobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond reputenobdysfool has a reputation beyond repute
The old "we don't smoke, drink, cuss, or chew, nor run around with them that do" mentality, whereby personal holiness was judged by outward adherence to strict rules of outward behavior, which do nothing to change the heart. Man has this inherent desire to lord it over others, to control others, mark and separate, and in general perpetuate a carnal, unholy attitude toward others. Usually, the strict rule crowd looks down their nose at the heathen, and others who claim to be Christian, but don't live by their strict rules. All they have done is exchanged easily identifiable "outward sins" for the more subtle and ultimately more deadly "inner sins" of pride, envy, lust and greed.
__________________
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.


Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.


Be exalted, O God, above the heavens! Let your glory be over all the earth! (Psa 57:5)



Faith in Christ is the evidence of Predestination and Election, not the cause of it....

We didn't believe in order to be born again, we were born again in order to believe.

No Matter Where You Go, There You Are...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 6th November 2009, 03:27 AM
Junior Member

56 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: Mexico
 
Join Date: 22nd October 2009
Location: Mexico
Posts: 173
Blessings: 4,775
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 6,282,200,627,498 (power: 6,282,200,628)
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Do Man-Made Rules Make You Holy?

Is it possible to obtain holiness by obeying a list of man-made rules?

Col 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Paul explains that these man-made rules only appear to have wisdom, because they cause you to sacrifice. But they do not improve your flesh or keep you from sin.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7th November 2009, 09:35 AM
Junior Member

56 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: Mexico
 
Join Date: 22nd October 2009
Location: Mexico
Posts: 173
Blessings: 4,775
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 6,282,200,627,498 (power: 6,282,200,628)
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Vince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond reputeVince53 has a reputation beyond repute
Holiness=Separation

We have seen that holiness cannot be obtained by obeying a list of man-made rules. So, how do you obtain holiness?

The words "holy," "sanctified," and "separate" are all the same words in the Greek and Hebrew. "Holiness" means "separation." It does not mean "spiritual" or "religious." The Bible uses these three words in only two ways: separation from sin, and separated to God. TO BECOME HOLY, YOU NEED TO SEPARATE FROM SIN.

Okay, how does this happen?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Baptists

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:18 AM.


vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios