| Sacramental/Ordinance Theology A forum for the discussion of the theology of sacraments. |  | | 
3rd November 2009, 04:21 PM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía 47 
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Reps: 727,432,821,147,579,648 (power: 727,432,821,147,586) | | | Luther on the Sacraments It is of the utmost importance that we highly esteem, honor, and rely upon the holy sacraments, which contain nothing but God's words, promises, and signs. This means that we have no doubts about the sacraments or the things of which they are certain signs, for if we doubt these we lose everything.
Christ says that it will happen to us as we believe. What will it profit you to assume and to believe that sin, death, and hell are overcome in Christ for others, but not to believe that your sin, your death, and your hell are also vanquished and wiped out and that you are thus redeemed?
Under those circumstances the sacraments will be completely fruitless, since you do not believe the things which are indicated, given, and promised there to you. That is the vilest sin that can be committed, for God himself is looked upon as a liar in his Word, signs, and works, as one who speaks, shows, and promises something which he neither means nor intends to keep.
Therefore we dare not trifle with the sacraments. Faith must be present for a firm reliance and cheerful venturing on such signs and promises of God. What sort of a God or Savior would he be who could not or would not save us from sin, death, and hell? Whatever the true God promises and effects must be something big.
--Martin Luther, in his sermon "Preparing to Die" written in 1519
__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused. Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity. (All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.) Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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3rd November 2009, 11:28 PM
|  | Celtic Rite Old Catholic Church

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Reps: 187,207,274,281,724,320 (power: 187,207,274,281,731) | | How many Holy Sacraments do Lutherans accept as valid?
Presbyterians have two: Baptism, and Communion.
Good thoughts brother CD!
They are Sacraments to us and not simply "ordinances", for those who don't know.
__________________ In Christ,
Fr. John To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | 
4th November 2009, 11:03 AM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía 47 
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Reps: 727,432,821,147,579,648 (power: 727,432,821,147,586) | | Lutherans hold to the two sacraments instituted by Jesus - Holy Baptism and Holy Communion.
(We also have Confession/Absolution in there too somewhere, but it's typically lumped together with Communion.)
__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused. Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity. (All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.) Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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6th November 2009, 02:26 PM
|  | Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20 37 
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6th November 2009, 03:50 PM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía 47 
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Reps: 727,432,821,147,579,648 (power: 727,432,821,147,586) | | | I would read "rely upon" in this context as "look to for the assurance of salvation", not "necessary for salvation".
In Lutheran theology, we do not look to our works or the fact that we personally believe for our assurance of salvation, but to the promises God makes to us, especially through his word and promises given to us individually in the sacraments.
__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused. Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity. (All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.) Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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7th November 2009, 09:20 PM
|  | Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20 37 
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Reps: 398,724,314,321,260,160 (power: 398,724,314,321,270) | | Originally Posted by CantateDomino In Lutheran theology, we do not look to our works or the fact that we personally believe for our assurance of salvation, but to the promises God makes to us, especially through his word and promises given to us individually in the sacraments.
Lutherans see the sacraments as human works? | 
9th November 2009, 02:10 PM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía 47 
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Reps: 727,432,821,147,579,648 (power: 727,432,821,147,586) | | | How did you get that out of what I said, Mr Polo? It's quite the opposite. The sacraments are a work of God.
__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused. Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity. (All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.) Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10th November 2009, 12:20 PM
|  | Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20 37 
| | Join Date: 29th July 2007
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Reps: 398,724,314,321,260,160 (power: 398,724,314,321,270) | | Originally Posted by CantateDomino How did you get that out of what I said, Mr Polo? It's quite the opposite. The sacraments are a work of God.
I agree. I was confused as to what you considered works you did not look to for salvation. | 
10th November 2009, 12:48 PM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía 47 
| | Join Date: 29th May 2009 Location: On the back roads, by the rivers of my memory
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__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused. Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity. (All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.) Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10th November 2009, 08:05 PM
|  | Veteran 39  | | Join Date: 10th June 2005 Location: OHIO. home of THE Ohio State Buckeyes
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Reps: 18,485,917,141,881,588 (power: 18,485,917,141,890) | | | I dont quite get the whole "rely upon" but not really thinking. It is either a command and therefor MUST be done to be obediant and therefor in salvation or it isnt. I dont see how you can make it any different. How can one be saved and in Christ and not do a supposed command. I think it is said that the two commands were to love one another and to love thy God. I wouldnt be considered a christian if I did not do these would I. Or at least attempted to do them. Why would it be different with these. For me there were no ordances or sacraments commanded in scripture. I dont think even very close to it. Did not Paul say we preach nothing but the cross and christ crucified. If that is all I taught would I not be teaching christianity and salvation correctly? |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |