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  #1  
Old 3rd November 2009, 04:21 PM
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Luther on the Sacraments

It is of the utmost importance that we highly esteem, honor, and rely upon the holy sacraments, which contain nothing but God's words, promises, and signs. This means that we have no doubts about the sacraments or the things of which they are certain signs, for if we doubt these we lose everything.

Christ says that it will happen to us as we believe. What will it profit you to assume and to believe that sin, death, and hell are overcome in Christ for others, but not to believe that your sin, your death, and your hell are also vanquished and wiped out and that you are thus redeemed?

Under those circumstances the sacraments will be completely fruitless, since you do not believe the things which are indicated, given, and promised there to you. That is the vilest sin that can be committed, for God himself is looked upon as a liar in his Word, signs, and works, as one who speaks, shows, and promises something which he neither means nor intends to keep.

Therefore we dare not trifle with the sacraments. Faith must be present for a firm reliance and cheerful venturing on such signs and promises of God. What sort of a God or Savior would he be who could not or would not save us from sin, death, and hell? Whatever the true God promises and effects must be something big.


--Martin Luther, in his sermon "Preparing to Die" written in 1519
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  #2  
Old 3rd November 2009, 11:28 PM
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How many Holy Sacraments do Lutherans accept as valid?
Presbyterians have two: Baptism, and Communion.
Good thoughts brother CD!

They are Sacraments to us and not simply "ordinances", for those who don't know.
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Old 4th November 2009, 11:03 AM
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Lutherans hold to the two sacraments instituted by Jesus - Holy Baptism and Holy Communion.

(We also have Confession/Absolution in there too somewhere, but it's typically lumped together with Communion.)
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Old 6th November 2009, 02:26 PM
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Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20

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When you say "rely upon" do you mean necessary for salvation?
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Old 6th November 2009, 03:50 PM
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I would read "rely upon" in this context as "look to for the assurance of salvation", not "necessary for salvation".

In Lutheran theology, we do not look to our works or the fact that we personally believe for our assurance of salvation, but to the promises God makes to us, especially through his word and promises given to us individually in the sacraments.
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Old 7th November 2009, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CantateDomino View Post
In Lutheran theology, we do not look to our works or the fact that we personally believe for our assurance of salvation, but to the promises God makes to us, especially through his word and promises given to us individually in the sacraments.
Lutherans see the sacraments as human works?
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  #7  
Old 9th November 2009, 02:10 PM
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How did you get that out of what I said, Mr Polo? It's quite the opposite. The sacraments are a work of God.
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Old 10th November 2009, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CantateDomino View Post
How did you get that out of what I said, Mr Polo? It's quite the opposite. The sacraments are a work of God.
I agree. I was confused as to what you considered works you did not look to for salvation.
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  #9  
Old 10th November 2009, 12:48 PM
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Old 10th November 2009, 08:05 PM
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I dont quite get the whole "rely upon" but not really thinking. It is either a command and therefor MUST be done to be obediant and therefor in salvation or it isnt. I dont see how you can make it any different. How can one be saved and in Christ and not do a supposed command. I think it is said that the two commands were to love one another and to love thy God. I wouldnt be considered a christian if I did not do these would I. Or at least attempted to do them. Why would it be different with these. For me there were no ordances or sacraments commanded in scripture. I dont think even very close to it. Did not Paul say we preach nothing but the cross and christ crucified. If that is all I taught would I not be teaching christianity and salvation correctly?
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