Ian McKellen Admits to Ripping Pages from The Bible

JGG · #31 3rd November 2009, 07:46 PM

Hey, let's see what the Amazing Grace Baptist Church is up to...

Great Preaching and Singing

We are burning Satan's bibles like the NIV, RSV, NKJV, TLB, NASB, ESV, NEV, NRSV, ASV, NWT, Good News for Modern Man, The Evidence Bible, The Message Bible, The Green Bible, and ect. These are perversions of God's Word the King James Bible.

nolongerhome · #32 3rd November 2009, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by quatona

I don´t seem to understand how you get from the fact that someone is rebelling against an ideology to the conclusion that he "knows deep in his heart" that this ideology is true.

I suspect that if you´d find "Mein Kampf" on the bedside table of every hotel room there would be plenty of people not only ripping out pages but rebel even more vehemently.
I fail to see how such a rebellion against an ideology someone strongly is opposed to suggests that he "knows deep in his heart" that it is true.
The most self-suggesting conclusion is that he simply disagrees strongly with it.

This is not to say that I find this reaction particularly reasonable. You don´t get rid of stupid or even dangerous ideas by ripping stupid parts out of books.
You don´t convince people that an idea is stupid or dangerous by trying to oppress it. Quite the contrary: you make it particularly interesting and more virulent, you give it weight that it doesn´t deserve, and you are likely to cause persecution fantasies and victim mentality among the followers of the idea.

I basically agree with this completely. I have no idea why the first assumption was that he ripped it out because he knew it to be true - surely he is ripping it out because he believes it to be false (considering he stated that his other option was just to throw the whole book out), and that this particular section he finds particularly false.

brinny · #33 3rd November 2009, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by nolongerhome

I basically agree with this completely. I have no idea why the first assumption was that he ripped it out because he knew it to be true - surely he is ripping it out because he believes it to be false (considering he stated that his other option was just to throw the whole book out), and that this particular section he finds particularly false.

why didn't he just throw the whole book out?

revanneosl · #34 3rd November 2009, 08:03 PM

I have occasionally considered taking a nice fat Sharpie marker to I Corinthians 14: 34-35, and being a woman called by God to preach was never, in my lifetime, a crime punishable by up to a 2 year term in prison, as being a homosexual was, in Britain, up until Mr. McKellen's 28th year.

When a particular biblical passage has been used as a rationalization for the oppression, imprisonment and murder of countless people down through the years, I don't think that it should come as a surprise to anybody when people have reactions that might be characterized as "over-the-top".

keith99 · #35 3rd November 2009, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ryal Kane

While I disagree with defacing a book you don't own, I can see the point he's making.
The vast majority of Christians, while they don't literally remove the pages, do generally ignore the rules in Leviticus.

I've heard the argument many times that the dietary laws don't apply and the moral ones do or similar mental gymnastics but I'm pretty sure theres nowhere in the Bible that specifies 'Rules 1-6 are still valid, rules 7-20, exclulding 13, no longer apply.'

Fail. It is explicit in the NT that dietray laws no longer apply. (Mark 7:18-20).

Other distinctions are not so clear.

Jaws13 · #36 3rd November 2009, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by suzybeezy

I literally just said to my husband "I'll probably get blasted for posting this", but it could make for a rather interesting discussion. Why would someone deface the Bible like he does if not for the fact that he's bothered deep within by the scripture.

The statement he made seems odd: either that or throw out the entire Bible- and it's in Leviticus, so no longer applies anyway, right? Hmm...

suzybeezy · #37 3rd November 2009, 08:49 PM

He comes from a strong Christian environment. His father was a lay preacher and both her grandfathers were preachers. He has spoken about his strong Christian upbringing. I am pretty sure he understands what he's doing and what it means.

He is mistaken if by ripping the pages out of GOD'S word he thinks it changes it. GOD'S word is forever. Ripping them out doesn't make them any less true.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

I could careless what his preference is; it is not my place to judge as we are all sinners. I just wish that he, and others, who feel so strongly on this issue could also learn to respect others.

Christian's are just as guilty of sinning. The only difference is we have recognized the existence of sin in our lives and have asked for forgiveness. We will continue to sin. We are human. We will fall short but we will try in His name to do what is best and when we fall short, we will again ask for forgiveness. All can do the same.

To deny that the sin exists doesn't erase it. To deny the existence of gravity doesn't allow us to fly. To rip out the page on homosexuality doesn't change what it says.

Catherineanne · #38 3rd November 2009, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Skaloop

Aren't Gideon Bibles, the ones generally found in hotel rooms, free for the taking? In which case it would not be criminal damage to a hotel room, it would be damage to one's own property.

I think the evidence for this distinction would be found in whether he removes the defaced Bible afterwards. If he does then he could say in defence that he regards it as his own property, and therefore is entitled to do whatever he likes to it.

However, if he defaces it and then leaves it in the room, clearly he does NOT regard it as his own property, and he may then become liable to a charge of committing willful criminal damage.

I doubt if anyone would bother to prosecute him for this, but that does not mean that what he is doing is legal, because it isn't.

Catherineanne · #39 3rd November 2009, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by JGG

Hey, let's see what the Amazing Grace Baptist Church is up to...

Great Preaching and Singing

We are burning Satan's bibles like the NIV, RSV, NKJV, TLB, NASB, ESV, NEV, NRSV, ASV, NWT, Good News for Modern Man, The Evidence Bible, The Message Bible, The Green Bible, and ect. These are perversions of God's Word the King James Bible.

However distasteful this behaviour might be, if the books they are burning are their own lawful property, then they are entitled to burn as many as they want, and much good may it do them.

nolongerhome · #40 3rd November 2009, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by brinny

why didn't he just throw the whole book out?

I don't know, ask him? Maybe he wanted to make a point to other people about the specific section he tore out?

I don't see how whether he left it or not makes a difference if it is a Gideon's bible - I can consent to leave my property wherever I like. If they Bible's are free to be taken, and it is in his hotel, he can claim ownership of the Bible and then do what he likes with it, which includes ripping pages out and then leaving it in the hotel room.