Sorry - we were addressing the issue/topic the OP had raised - your cutely coined "shotgun opera."
I'm not attempting to derail the topic at hand, but I dont think asking questions is off-limits.
I called it shotgun opera because thats what it's coming off as, a mass of sound that attempts to block or drown out everything else.
But to be honest, I've no idea how to compare one's revelation of what abortion really is to why people leave unfulfilling jobs in the corporate sector - let alone how that is somehow an indictment against capitalism in general???
You count this as a victory for the pro-life movement because it highlights the fact that there are people in Planned Parenthood who cant morally cope with abortion.
My question is should someone leaving ANYTHING for moral reasons be counted as an indicator that that something is immoral or wrong. The example I gave was someone leaving corporate America because he couldnt morally cope with the idea of how his company made money.
Originally Posted by brinny
i must've missed it...what was it?
See previous paragraph
and please do not refer to the language or expressions spoken by Christians as "hyperbole". Thank you.
Your language in reference to abortion is hyperbole, I don't care what your religious beliefs are. Hyperbole is over-exaggerated speech designed to elicit an emotional reaction. Your language in reference to Planned Parenthood (Which does A LOT more than abortions, just by the way) and abortions in general is hyperbole.
I'm not criticizing your exaltations about god changing this woman's mind, if you feel that's the case, more power to you. I do however take issue with the deliberate use of inflammatory language designed to poison the well of discussion so that no one can come after you and drink. If someone does want to come in and discuss the issue, they are met with accusations akin to "So you support BABY MURDERING!?" and the actual discussion goes nowhere.
If you feel that the woman leaving is a good thing, thats totally fine, I have no problems with that opinion. Its when that opinion gets transmuted with the use of hyperbolic language into a weapon that's used against people who want to have an honest discussion about the issue that I start digging my heels in.
__________________
Even Now In Heaven There Are Angels Carrying Savage Weapons
Chairs thrown and tables toppled,
Hands armed with broken bottles,
Standing no chance to win but,
We're not running, we're not running.
Black eyes, broken fingers,
Blood drips and I let it run
down my lips into my swollen gums.
When hope is non-existent,
Our instincts all scream "Run",
We never turn our backs or even bite our tongues.
Steezie, in response to your question..i hope this is the right one:
My question is should someone leaving ANYTHING for moral reasons be counted as an indicator that that something is immoral or wrong. The example I gave was someone leaving corporate America because he couldnt morally cope with the idea of how his company made money.
She was quite clear why she left. You do realize that of course, i agree with her, yes?
And yes, the same for Corporate America. The question is, whether we believe in our hearts it is wrong. A Christian has the Holy Spirit working in their hearts/consciences. God can intercede and bring a c onviction of right and wrong to even those who see nothing wrong with what they are doing...and are convinced it's just "business".
__________________
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To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge" --Ravi Zacharias
‘If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents—the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts—i.e. of materialism and astronomy—are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milkjug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.’
C.S. Lewis
"God is in the rain."~Evey in V for Vendetta
"Prayer in its highest form is agonizing soul sweat." --Leonard Ravenhill
"Strength is born in the deep silence of long suffering hearts; not amid joy." Felicia Hemans
"The unexamined life is not worth living". ~Socrates
i hated it when God insisted i "yawp!"
but He knew i must,
and that my life would not begin,
until i yawped.
We all must learn to yawp.
we MUST awaken the passion,
that part of us that feels intensely,
and is NOT afraid to say so
or to express it.
Otherwise we are just dead men walking.
my journal/blog:
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I'm not attempting to derail the topic at hand, but I dont think asking questions is off-limits.
I called it shotgun opera because thats what it's coming off as, a mass of sound that attempts to block or drown out everything else.
You count this as a victory for the pro-life movement because it highlights the fact that there are people in Planned Parenthood who cant morally cope with abortion.
My question is should someone leaving ANYTHING for moral reasons be counted as an indicator that that something is immoral or wrong. The example I gave was someone leaving corporate America because he couldnt morally cope with the idea of how his company made money.
See previous paragraph
Your language in reference to abortion is hyperbole, I don't care what your religious beliefs are. Hyperbole is over-exaggerated speech designed to elicit an emotional reaction. Your language in reference to Planned Parenthood (Which does A LOT more than abortions, just by the way) and abortions in general is hyperbole.
I'm not criticizing your exaltations about god changing this woman's mind, if you feel that's the case, more power to you. I do however take issue with the deliberate use of inflammatory language designed to poison the well of discussion so that no one can come after you and drink. If someone does want to come in and discuss the issue, they are met with accusations akin to "So you support BABY MURDERING!?" and the actual discussion goes nowhere.
If you feel that the woman leaving is a good thing, thats totally fine, I have no problems with that opinion. Its when that opinion gets transmuted with the use of hyperbolic language into a weapon that's used against people who want to have an honest discussion about the issue that I start digging my heels in.
you do realize this is not just a casual subject to some of us, but it IS literally life/death.....language used is because it IS viewed as life/death and therefore of the utmost urgency. Language may tend to pick up that urgency. THat is to be expected in such a thread about an issue of such gravity.
__________________
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To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge" --Ravi Zacharias
‘If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents—the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts—i.e. of materialism and astronomy—are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milkjug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.’
C.S. Lewis
"God is in the rain."~Evey in V for Vendetta
"Prayer in its highest form is agonizing soul sweat." --Leonard Ravenhill
"Strength is born in the deep silence of long suffering hearts; not amid joy." Felicia Hemans
"The unexamined life is not worth living". ~Socrates
i hated it when God insisted i "yawp!"
but He knew i must,
and that my life would not begin,
until i yawped.
We all must learn to yawp.
we MUST awaken the passion,
that part of us that feels intensely,
and is NOT afraid to say so
or to express it.
Otherwise we are just dead men walking.
my journal/blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...or "fetuses" which is a term that is somehow supposed to make one believe it is not human and therefore not deserving of our protection, care, or love.
If you make someone seem less than human and basically dehumanize them then it's much easier to kill them. So let's just keep using the word "fetus" when we're performing abortions, because that makes it easier for us to deal with killing unwanted babies. And lets keep calling them "babies" when we ourselves get pregnant and want to keep them. Funny how women say, "I've had an ultrasound of my baby!" rather than "I've had an ultrasound of my fetus". They form an emotional attatchment to their unborn babies and grieve if they have a misscarriage. So if the baby is wanted we view it as worthy of being considered human. However if it's unwanted then it's just a "fetus" and not really worthy of being human.
If you make someone seem less than human and basically dehumanize them then it's much easier to kill them. So let's just keep using the word "fetus" when we're performing abortions, because that makes it easier for us to deal with killing unwanted babies. And lets keep calling them "babies" when we ourselves get pregnant and want to keep them. Funny how women say, "I've had an ultrasound of my baby!" rather than "I've had an ultrasound of my fetus". They form an emotional attatchment to their unborn babies and grieve if they have a misscarriage. So if the baby is wanted we view it as worthy of being considered human. However if it's unwanted then it's just a "fetus" and not really worthy of being human.
it's scary how flip-floppy humans can be, isn't it? Reminds me of what God declared:
There is none righteous, not one.
__________________
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To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, "I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge" --Ravi Zacharias
‘If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents—the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts—i.e. of materialism and astronomy—are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milkjug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.’
C.S. Lewis
"God is in the rain."~Evey in V for Vendetta
"Prayer in its highest form is agonizing soul sweat." --Leonard Ravenhill
"Strength is born in the deep silence of long suffering hearts; not amid joy." Felicia Hemans
"The unexamined life is not worth living". ~Socrates
i hated it when God insisted i "yawp!"
but He knew i must,
and that my life would not begin,
until i yawped.
We all must learn to yawp.
we MUST awaken the passion,
that part of us that feels intensely,
and is NOT afraid to say so
or to express it.
Otherwise we are just dead men walking.
my journal/blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
And lets keep calling them "babies" when we ourselves get pregnant and want to keep them. Funny how women say, "I've had an ultrasound of my baby!" rather than "I've had an ultrasound of my fetus".
And many people still think peanut butter is made with actual butter. Simply because we colloquially refer to something incorrectly does not automatically make it right
Originally Posted by brinny
you do realize this is not just a casual subject to some of us, but it IS literally life/death.....language used is because it IS viewed as life/death and therefore of the utmost urgency. Language may tend to pick up that urgency. THat is to be expected in such a thread about an issue of such gravity.
That language does not help your cause. If I feel very strongly about healthcare reform and you want to talk to me about it, are you going to want to talk to me for long if I keep yelling (or even saying) "If you dont support reform, you're committing MURDER!" Chances are good you'll probably write me off as a jar of nutterbutter and move on. The same applies with the pro-life movement, if I feel like the people involved cant have a rational talk about it without bringing in inflammatory language then I'm probably not gonna want to talk about it.
I dont want to get into why I have serious issues with the pro-life movement here because I dont want to derail the thread (if you REALLY want, PM me or start a new thread and send the link to me) but this is a problem that I see a lot in the movement as a whole.
Originally Posted by brinny
She was quite clear why she left. You do realize that of course, i agree with her, yes?
Yes, I understand that and I dont fault you for feeling that way. What I DO find fault with is treating this as some sort of huge victory for the pro-life movement when it really isnt.
And yes, the same for Corporate America. The question is, whether we believe in our hearts it is wrong. A Christian has the Holy Spirit working in their hearts/consciences. God can intercede and bring a c onviction of right and wrong to even those who see nothing wrong with what they are doing...and are convinced it's just "business".
A little creepy, but again I dont fault the belief, just what it's applied to in this case.
__________________
Even Now In Heaven There Are Angels Carrying Savage Weapons
Chairs thrown and tables toppled,
Hands armed with broken bottles,
Standing no chance to win but,
We're not running, we're not running.
Black eyes, broken fingers,
Blood drips and I let it run
down my lips into my swollen gums.
When hope is non-existent,
Our instincts all scream "Run",
We never turn our backs or even bite our tongues.
Some people defend infanticide, applaud it, think it a good thing, and ridicule those who oppose it.
You are so right.
This is what the LORD says: 'About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again.
__________________ The greatest war that a honest person will ever fight will be the war to see thru your own biases and see the issues objectively.
It's a war that nobody ever wins, but a war that honest people never stop fighting.
...or "fetuses" which is a term that is somehow supposed to make one believe it is not human and therefore not deserving of our protection, care, or love.
LOL
Do you have issues with scientific names?
__________________ The greatest war that a honest person will ever fight will be the war to see thru your own biases and see the issues objectively.
It's a war that nobody ever wins, but a war that honest people never stop fighting.
God is awesome!!
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