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  #31  
Old 4th November 2009, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Subdood View Post
Sorry - we were addressing the issue/topic the OP had raised - your cutely coined "shotgun opera."
I'm not attempting to derail the topic at hand, but I dont think asking questions is off-limits.

I called it shotgun opera because thats what it's coming off as, a mass of sound that attempts to block or drown out everything else.

But to be honest, I've no idea how to compare one's revelation of what abortion really is to why people leave unfulfilling jobs in the corporate sector - let alone how that is somehow an indictment against capitalism in general???
You count this as a victory for the pro-life movement because it highlights the fact that there are people in Planned Parenthood who cant morally cope with abortion.

My question is should someone leaving ANYTHING for moral reasons be counted as an indicator that that something is immoral or wrong. The example I gave was someone leaving corporate America because he couldnt morally cope with the idea of how his company made money.

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
i must've missed it...what was it?
See previous paragraph

and please do not refer to the language or expressions spoken by Christians as "hyperbole". Thank you.
Your language in reference to abortion is hyperbole, I don't care what your religious beliefs are. Hyperbole is over-exaggerated speech designed to elicit an emotional reaction. Your language in reference to Planned Parenthood (Which does A LOT more than abortions, just by the way) and abortions in general is hyperbole.

I'm not criticizing your exaltations about god changing this woman's mind, if you feel that's the case, more power to you. I do however take issue with the deliberate use of inflammatory language designed to poison the well of discussion so that no one can come after you and drink. If someone does want to come in and discuss the issue, they are met with accusations akin to "So you support BABY MURDERING!?" and the actual discussion goes nowhere.

If you feel that the woman leaving is a good thing, thats totally fine, I have no problems with that opinion. Its when that opinion gets transmuted with the use of hyperbolic language into a weapon that's used against people who want to have an honest discussion about the issue that I start digging my heels in.
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  #32  
Old 4th November 2009, 04:06 PM
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Steezie, in response to your question..i hope this is the right one:

My question is should someone leaving ANYTHING for moral reasons be counted as an indicator that that something is immoral or wrong. The example I gave was someone leaving corporate America because he couldnt morally cope with the idea of how his company made money.
She was quite clear why she left. You do realize that of course, i agree with her, yes?

And yes, the same for Corporate America. The question is, whether we believe in our hearts it is wrong. A Christian has the Holy Spirit working in their hearts/consciences. God can intercede and bring a c onviction of right and wrong to even those who see nothing wrong with what they are doing...and are convinced it's just "business".
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posted by ViaCrucis:
It's not even "too much Old Testament", in the Old Testament God is compassionate, shows mercy, is patient and long-suffering. Consider the lesson we learn from Jonah, or the word delivered to Ezekiel that God does not desire the death of the wicked, that God takes no pleasure or joy in the destruction of the wicked by desires that that the wicked repent and change their ways so they might live and have life. God has always been a merciful, compassionate, kind and patient God who has no desire for the destruction of the wicked, who has loving-kindness for the sinner and for the wicked person to change their ways and truly live and have life. -CryptoLutheran
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  #33  
Old 4th November 2009, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Steezie View Post
I'm not attempting to derail the topic at hand, but I dont think asking questions is off-limits.

I called it shotgun opera because thats what it's coming off as, a mass of sound that attempts to block or drown out everything else.

You count this as a victory for the pro-life movement because it highlights the fact that there are people in Planned Parenthood who cant morally cope with abortion.

My question is should someone leaving ANYTHING for moral reasons be counted as an indicator that that something is immoral or wrong. The example I gave was someone leaving corporate America because he couldnt morally cope with the idea of how his company made money.

See previous paragraph

Your language in reference to abortion is hyperbole, I don't care what your religious beliefs are. Hyperbole is over-exaggerated speech designed to elicit an emotional reaction. Your language in reference to Planned Parenthood (Which does A LOT more than abortions, just by the way) and abortions in general is hyperbole.

I'm not criticizing your exaltations about god changing this woman's mind, if you feel that's the case, more power to you. I do however take issue with the deliberate use of inflammatory language designed to poison the well of discussion so that no one can come after you and drink. If someone does want to come in and discuss the issue, they are met with accusations akin to "So you support BABY MURDERING!?" and the actual discussion goes nowhere.

If you feel that the woman leaving is a good thing, thats totally fine, I have no problems with that opinion. Its when that opinion gets transmuted with the use of hyperbolic language into a weapon that's used against people who want to have an honest discussion about the issue that I start digging my heels in.
you do realize this is not just a casual subject to some of us, but it IS literally life/death.....language used is because it IS viewed as life/death and therefore of the utmost urgency. Language may tend to pick up that urgency. THat is to be expected in such a thread about an issue of such gravity.
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posted by ViaCrucis:
It's not even "too much Old Testament", in the Old Testament God is compassionate, shows mercy, is patient and long-suffering. Consider the lesson we learn from Jonah, or the word delivered to Ezekiel that God does not desire the death of the wicked, that God takes no pleasure or joy in the destruction of the wicked by desires that that the wicked repent and change their ways so they might live and have life. God has always been a merciful, compassionate, kind and patient God who has no desire for the destruction of the wicked, who has loving-kindness for the sinner and for the wicked person to change their ways and truly live and have life. -CryptoLutheran
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  #34  
Old 4th November 2009, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Subdood View Post
...or "fetuses" which is a term that is somehow supposed to make one believe it is not human and therefore not deserving of our protection, care, or love.
If you make someone seem less than human and basically dehumanize them then it's much easier to kill them. So let's just keep using the word "fetus" when we're performing abortions, because that makes it easier for us to deal with killing unwanted babies. And lets keep calling them "babies" when we ourselves get pregnant and want to keep them. Funny how women say, "I've had an ultrasound of my baby!" rather than "I've had an ultrasound of my fetus". They form an emotional attatchment to their unborn babies and grieve if they have a misscarriage. So if the baby is wanted we view it as worthy of being considered human. However if it's unwanted then it's just a "fetus" and not really worthy of being human.
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  #35  
Old 4th November 2009, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AmyGlen View Post
If you make someone seem less than human and basically dehumanize them then it's much easier to kill them. So let's just keep using the word "fetus" when we're performing abortions, because that makes it easier for us to deal with killing unwanted babies. And lets keep calling them "babies" when we ourselves get pregnant and want to keep them. Funny how women say, "I've had an ultrasound of my baby!" rather than "I've had an ultrasound of my fetus". They form an emotional attatchment to their unborn babies and grieve if they have a misscarriage. So if the baby is wanted we view it as worthy of being considered human. However if it's unwanted then it's just a "fetus" and not really worthy of being human.
it's scary how flip-floppy humans can be, isn't it? Reminds me of what God declared:

There is none righteous, not one.
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posted by ViaCrucis:
It's not even "too much Old Testament", in the Old Testament God is compassionate, shows mercy, is patient and long-suffering. Consider the lesson we learn from Jonah, or the word delivered to Ezekiel that God does not desire the death of the wicked, that God takes no pleasure or joy in the destruction of the wicked by desires that that the wicked repent and change their ways so they might live and have life. God has always been a merciful, compassionate, kind and patient God who has no desire for the destruction of the wicked, who has loving-kindness for the sinner and for the wicked person to change their ways and truly live and have life. -CryptoLutheran
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  #36  
Old 4th November 2009, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AmyGlen View Post
And lets keep calling them "babies" when we ourselves get pregnant and want to keep them. Funny how women say, "I've had an ultrasound of my baby!" rather than "I've had an ultrasound of my fetus".
And many people still think peanut butter is made with actual butter. Simply because we colloquially refer to something incorrectly does not automatically make it right

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
you do realize this is not just a casual subject to some of us, but it IS literally life/death.....language used is because it IS viewed as life/death and therefore of the utmost urgency. Language may tend to pick up that urgency. THat is to be expected in such a thread about an issue of such gravity.
That language does not help your cause. If I feel very strongly about healthcare reform and you want to talk to me about it, are you going to want to talk to me for long if I keep yelling (or even saying) "If you dont support reform, you're committing MURDER!" Chances are good you'll probably write me off as a jar of nutterbutter and move on. The same applies with the pro-life movement, if I feel like the people involved cant have a rational talk about it without bringing in inflammatory language then I'm probably not gonna want to talk about it.

I dont want to get into why I have serious issues with the pro-life movement here because I dont want to derail the thread (if you REALLY want, PM me or start a new thread and send the link to me) but this is a problem that I see a lot in the movement as a whole.

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
She was quite clear why she left. You do realize that of course, i agree with her, yes?
Yes, I understand that and I dont fault you for feeling that way. What I DO find fault with is treating this as some sort of huge victory for the pro-life movement when it really isnt.

And yes, the same for Corporate America. The question is, whether we believe in our hearts it is wrong. A Christian has the Holy Spirit working in their hearts/consciences. God can intercede and bring a c onviction of right and wrong to even those who see nothing wrong with what they are doing...and are convinced it's just "business".
A little creepy, but again I dont fault the belief, just what it's applied to in this case.
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  #37  
Old 5th November 2009, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Subdood View Post
Some people defend infanticide, applaud it, think it a good thing, and ridicule those who oppose it.
You are so right.

This is what the LORD says: 'About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again.
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they told me if I voted for John McCain that I would get a President like Bush that would violate the airspace and sovereignty of an allied nation with a military force to assassinate a foreign national of another allied country and then their dead body would be dumped in the ocean. and they were right.
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  #38  
Old 5th November 2009, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Daughter of His View Post
keep watching, God is at work. God is awesome!!
Has he begun to work on Africa yet?

I'm just wondering because a large portion of that continent is in chaos, horrific wars, starvation...

So when does god get around to fixing that issue?
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they told me if I voted for John McCain that I would get a President like Bush that would violate the airspace and sovereignty of an allied nation with a military force to assassinate a foreign national of another allied country and then their dead body would be dumped in the ocean. and they were right.
I support the arts.
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  #39  
Old 5th November 2009, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Subdood View Post
...or "fetuses" which is a term that is somehow supposed to make one believe it is not human and therefore not deserving of our protection, care, or love.
LOL

Do you have issues with scientific names?
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they told me if I voted for John McCain that I would get a President like Bush that would violate the airspace and sovereignty of an allied nation with a military force to assassinate a foreign national of another allied country and then their dead body would be dumped in the ocean. and they were right.
I support the arts.
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Old 5th November 2009, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by brinny View Post
i must've missed it...what was it?

and please do not refer to the language or expressions spoken by Christians as "hyperbole". Thank you.
Why? There is a huge amount of hyperbole in this thread.

Remember talking earlier about freedom of speech? Practice what you preach and respond to peoples comments instead of asking them not to say them.
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they told me if I voted for John McCain that I would get a President like Bush that would violate the airspace and sovereignty of an allied nation with a military force to assassinate a foreign national of another allied country and then their dead body would be dumped in the ocean. and they were right.
I support the arts.
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