Been hearing in the news a bit about the English Defence League, so just woundered what everyones opinions are on them (thats if anyone still comes on here).
For me, I have mixed feelings. On the front, they seem to be a bunch of racist thugs, but looking further into them, I'm not so sure.
We had a protest in Leeds at the weekend, and I know theres been simular protests in Manc and Brum, and going to be one in Nottingham. Now first of all, I know there was a racist presence at the demo, as a friend walking past with a black friend got abused. How ever, I don't think this was the aim of the protest. When a big group gather like that, there are going to be some 16 year old wanna be big men who miss the point, and think it's a "pro white" demo.
How ever, when you research into the English Defence League (EDL) more, its clear this is not their objective. Indeed, the EDL pride them selves on the fact that there are many "black faces" in their ranks, and they are clear that they are no way conected to any politic group (i.e the BNP).
The EDL claim to be there to protect England from radical Muslims. Is this a bad thing? There is clear evidence that radical Muslims are about in England, is it a bad thing to protect us against this? in the news paper last week, it was reported that a radical Muslim preacher preached that he wanted to see Buckingham Palace converted into a Mosque, with speakers on the front to call us to prayer. Now, I know that 99% of Muslims are peacful, and would not agree with this, but there is that 1% (or even less) that agree with it. Is it wrong to group together and stand against this?
The EDL did how ever, claim to love God. Now, I'm not one to judge, maybe the guy at the front was a Christian, but it did annoy me when they brough God into their argument. But then it got me thinking, they way England is going, in my opinion it won't be long before the national anthem is re-wrote leaving God out of it. Again, is this wrong to stand up and protect this?
Finaly, on our local news their was a MP, saying how he was opposed to the march and tried getting in banned. But, in England we have freedom of speach. Allright, so the EDL is very extreme in what they believe, but just because a local MP doesn't agree with them, should he have the right to try and ban the march? Just because this group doesn't share his opinion, why does he think he is the only one who has freedom of speach?
Just wondered what anyone else thought of the EDL?
I think they're a bunch of racist thugs. Was looking in to them recently and the same people turn up on the EDL website, soccer casual websites, Bnp forums, and so on and so forth. Basically these guys have jumped on a bandwagon of hate for Muslims, but are just as at home pulling Nazi salutes, chasing down and beating up homosexuals, or travelling round Europe to fight with football fans of various different allegiances and making monkey noises at coloured footballers. Just because their PR machine is slightly more sophisticated than is the norm, doesn't mean that the membership is.
They are keen to distance themselves from the BNP - another bunch of thugs relying on a paper thin veneer to seperate themselves from what they truly are, but the reality is that the have too many members in common - founder members indeed - for that to fly.
I would flip from what you said, and focus on their actions rather than their stated 'intentions' on the website. It's easy for them to attach noble aims to their existence, but when the reality is that they are a bunch of hoodlums shouting racial abuse at various passing people then their actions speak louder than their words.
As for protecting the UK from radical muslims - how exactly are they setting about doing that? By gathering intelligence on extremists? By infiltrating mosques which spread extremism? By engaging young muslims in conversation and helping them reject the lies of the extremists? No. By littering up our town centres, dazzling old ladies with their shiny heads, pulling nazi salutes shouting abuse and picking fights. I don't really think they're protecting anyone from anything.
On the God and national anthem thing, as far as I am concerned the sooner as we let go of this 'Christendom' nonsense the better. We are not and have never been a Christian nation. Churchgoing does not make you a Christian. Saying Lord Lord does not make you a Christian. The link between Church and State only damages the church. Christianity is an underground, subversive, radical religion. It thrives in areas where it is banned, and stagnates wherever it forms the establishment. So much of the historic connection between Church and state has led to the kind of barriers we now face in getting people to take Christianity seriously. I won't be defending the God part of the national anthem. The last thing we need God dragged into and associated with another boring irrelevant dirge.
As for the MP - you are right, he or she is an idiot if they think banning these numpties does anything other than make them more in the public eye. They have every right to demonstrate the true nature of their ugliness to folks like you.
__________________
My Boy!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
A further problem that I have noted, however, is because the BNP and EDL and less covertly racist groups are anti-Islam they cause another problem; ie. when people who are not racist thugs disagree with and speak out against aspects of Islam it is very easy to assume that they are, well ... racist thugs. This is not true. There are aspects of Islam that I disagree with culturally and theologically and I am no racist. But there's the rub, right there. People who nowdisagree with aspects of Islam have to add the disclaimer "I'm not a racist" because the BNP and EDL etc have muddied the waters so much.
__________________ In the hope that one day there will be a preferential option for the poor.
let me get this straight, I am in now way saying I support the EDL or the BNP.
Monkey noises at football matches? Are you still living in the 80's? You might be shocked to know that they no longer sell coppies of Bulldog outside football grounds either. Fair enough, on the contenant monkey noises are still made, but in the past 20 years, I can remember one incident of moneky noises at a football mtach, and that was one man, in an isolated incident.
So you say there's part of Islam you disagree with? So, whats the difference between you disagreeing with Islam and someone at the march dissagreeing with Islam? I know lads who went to the march, they say there was no racism, just England chants. Maybe theyre chatting rubbish, but I have no reason to doubt them.
There lads arent inflitrating terroists, and lets be honest, most of them wouldn't have the intelligance to. But they are making a stand, going to the streets and saying they're opposed to extreme Islam. So, if worse comes to worse and England does become a Muslim state, then what? What have you done to stop it? At least these lads can say they went out, to try and make a stand against it, and keep England Christian. If, England does never become Islam state, then these lads got it wrong, big deal.
And I know Christianity may thrive better in areas where Christians are persicuted, but for me, I couldn't bare this thought. The thought that me and my wife may be split up, never to see each other again. I wouldn't know what to do, or how to react.
I've said along time, that other politic parties need to listen to parties like the BNP. Ok, they are wrong, but there's a reason why people vote for them. On question time a couple weeks ago, I think it was a Lib Dem MP, who said they took a leaf out of the BNP's book. BNP won 50% of the votes in Burnley, by going out and listening to what the people want. The Lib Dems saw this, and coppied them. Then they halfed the votes the BNP got. On the news this morning, some polititian addmitted they got it wrong with imigration, again, something the BNP have been saying for a long time.
Although, that besides the point. Nick Griffen has said he has nothing to do with the EDL.
One question is what race is Islam? None. So how can they be racists? The EDL march against Extreme Islams, not black people/Asian people/white people/ Chinease.
Monkey noises at football matches? Are you still living in the 80's? You might be shocked to know that they no longer sell coppies of Bulldog outside football grounds either. Fair enough, on the contenant monkey noises are still made, but in the past 20 years, I can remember one incident of moneky noises at a football mtach, and that was one man, in an isolated incident.
Beating homosexuals is also a bit retro, the point is that these people move to whatever is going on at the time, Islam is flavour of the day, but they'll antagonise and pick fights with whoever. It's not like there is any real overarching ideology like the veneer you find the edl website that they adhere to, it is just who is going to give them a fight, who is different, who can we attack. That is what drives them.
Originally Posted by Hexa
So you say there's part of Islam you disagree with? So, whats the difference between you disagreeing with Islam and someone at the march dissagreeing with Islam?
The difference is the actions I take. Standing in a town centre does nothing usefull.
Originally Posted by Hexa
I know lads who went to the march, they say there was no racism, just England chants. Maybe theyre chatting rubbish, but I have no reason to doubt them.
What about your own experience? Both can't be true - you said one of your friends walked past and they got abuse.
Originally Posted by Hexa
There lads arent inflitrating terroists, and lets be honest, most of them wouldn't have the intelligance to. But they are making a stand, going to the streets and saying they're opposed to extreme Islam. So, if worse comes to worse and England does become a Muslim state, then what? What have you done to stop it?
First of all, Muslims make up around 3% of the population. I don't even know what tiny percentage of that 3% would be extreme. I think even the Jedis might be approaching more of a stranglehold than the muslims. We are not going to become a muslim state. What kind of a stand are they making? Who is won over through hate? If we are truly concerned about radical islam then their kind of actions are definitely most likely to push young muslims into the hands of the extremists who will rot their brains. First do no harm.
What have I done? If I do nothing I have done no harm - these guys are part of the problem. Hate breeds hate. What I have actually done is treat my Muslim neighbours employers employees and friends with respect, and engaged them in conversation.
Originally Posted by Hexa
At least these lads can say they went out, to try and make a stand against it, and keep England Christian. If, England does never become Islam state, then these lads got it wrong, big deal.
England is not Christian. Church attendance is about to hit 10%. These guys aren't Christian either, they're skinhead thugs. And there is a big deal about spreading hatred, and if in about 1000 years england is an islamic state, then these guys will have played their part in speeding it on.
Originally Posted by Hexa
I've said along time, that other politic parties need to listen to parties like the BNP. Ok, they are wrong, but there's a reason why people vote for them. On question time a couple weeks ago, I think it was a Lib Dem MP, who said they took a leaf out of the BNP's book. BNP won 50% of the votes in Burnley, by going out and listening to what the people want. The Lib Dems saw this, and coppied them. Then they halfed the votes the BNP got. On the news this morning, some polititian addmitted they got it wrong with imigration, again, something the BNP have been saying for a long time.
Political parties need to listen to the people, not the BNP, but the people need to listen to the facts and not all the nonsense which is spread about by the BNP, the tabloids and the rumour mill. There is so much nonsense out there about immigration it is untrue. The BNP trades in ignorance. So does the EDL.
Originally Posted by Hexa
Although, that besides the point. Nick Griffen has said he has nothing to do with the EDL.
EDL links to the BNP are undeniable.
Originally Posted by Hexa
One question is what race is Islam? None. So how can they be racists? The EDL march against Extreme Islams, not black people/Asian people/white people/ Chinease.
What race was your mate who got shouted at?
How do they know who are extremists and who are not? Are they experts in Islamic theology? I think not.
They have no idea who they are marching against, and are quite happy slinging abuse at anyone who looks different.
__________________
My Boy!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
People like Dawkins and Hitchens have protested the presence of Islam as well - but nobody would lump them together with the common BNP race-isses. The EDL are just a Christianised version of the militant secularists, with perhaps a few football hooligans sprinkled here and there.
__________________ You must take your place in the great circle of...stuff.
For me, I have mixed feelings. On the front, they seem to be a bunch of racist thugs, but looking further into them, I'm not so sure.
We had a protest in Leeds at the weekend, and I know theres been simular protests in Manc and Brum, and going to be one in Nottingham. Now first of all, I know there was a racist presence at the demo, as a friend walking past with a black friend got abused. How ever, I don't think this was the aim of the protest. When a big group gather like that, there are going to be some 16 year old wanna be big men who miss the point, and think it's a "pro white" demo.
I would suggest that they are indeed a bunch of racist thugs. Not sure where the mixed feelings or confusion comes in.....
How ever, when you research into the English Defence League (EDL) more, its clear this is not their objective. Indeed, the EDL pride them selves on the fact that there are many "black faces" in their ranks, and they are clear that they are no way conected to any politic group (i.e the BNP).
Reminds me of the "I'm not racist because I have black friends" line
The EDL claim to be there to protect England from radical Muslims. Is this a bad thing? There is clear evidence that radical Muslims are about in England, is it a bad thing to protect us against this?
Look, it is clearly obvious that you are sympathetic towards their pathetic and utterly ill conceived ideas. That's fine, but please don't give me this bs about the EDL protecting us from radical Islam. Perhaps we should be protected from the likes of EDL. Radical Muslims are not a direct threat to me. Racist football hooligans and marches consisting of disgruntled white males are more of a threat to me than some radical Muslim. You have fallen for their propaganda because YOU percieve a threat to be there, when clearly it is not.
But then it got me thinking, they way England is going, in my opinion it won't be long before the national anthem is re-wrote leaving God out of it. Again, is this wrong to stand up and protect this?
There you go.....
Finaly, on our local news their was a MP, saying how he was opposed to the march and tried getting in banned. But, in England we have freedom of speach. Allright, so the EDL is very extreme in what they believe, but just because a local MP doesn't agree with them, should he have the right to try and ban the march? Just because this group doesn't share his opinion, why does he think he is the only one who has freedom of speach?
So the radical Muslim doesn't have the right to state his case or protest his cause. It seems freedom of speech is only permissable, or in your world curtailed when it is carried out by disillusioned white men.
I would suggest staying in on Friday or Saturday nights. You could be attacked by some loutish English drunks.
Linear Mode
