Where do I stand with the Catholic Church?

JoeJoe83 · #1 3rd November 2009, 05:55 AM

I firstly want to thank anyone who reads this and helps me with my question.

I have had great struggles with understanding religion and trying to find what is right. If you would like to learn more about this confusion, although it is not required reading to answer me question, you may read here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7158639/

My question is: I grew up Catholic and up until I was about 18 I considered myself Catholic. I am now 26. I have great love and respect for the Catholic Church and it's members and administrators.

I however have some confusions with Catholic teachings both scripturally and philosophically.

This has led me to discover a different form of Christianity, that although is not that different, it is not "Catholic."

I do not reject the Catholic Church, I want to make that very clear. But in times of emotional struggle I often get angry and it causes me to move closer to this alternative form of Christianity, which scripturually and philosophically makes sense to me.

It's very important to know, that I take religion as humbly as possible. I often state to myself that I believe "Whatever Jesus tells me." If Jesus approaches me and tells me the Catholic Church is correct, then I believe every word of it.

However as of right now, I lean towards this understanding I have come to know over the past year that, to me, makes sense.

My question is: Where do I stand with the Catholic Church? I was told on here to "don't reject anything" and I think I should be fine.

What are your thoughts?

I thank you all in advance for any kind assistance you can offer me, and I want you to know I've made it a point to love all people including all of you and I hope Jesus would want me to.

Winter · #2 3rd November 2009, 11:40 AM

Where do you stand with the Catholic Church? Do you mean to ask how does the Catholic church regard you? As far as I know the church still regards you as a Catholic - but I suppose if you ever converted to another religion, then you wouldn't be Catholic anymore - its the same with any religion.

Please keep in mind, contrary to what other Christians will say, the Catholic Church views all denominations - including all Protestant denominations - as Christian, period. However, the Church does view that Catholicism embraces a fuller truth which unfortunately other denominations reject.

Most cradle Catholics such as yourself never had the opportunity to learn Catholicism as an adult - we are on our own after Confirmation at age 13, and many end up understanding Catholicism from the vantage point of a child. It wasn't until I studied Catholicism at an adult level (in which theology and Scripture interpretation could be explained and understood at a fuller level) that I learned to understand my faith better.

Anyway, I digress. Getting back to your question - the Church still recognizes your Catholic baptism but obviously if you ever converted then youre no longer Catholic. kind of like a Baptist who converts to Anglicanism. He's no longer Baptist, he's Anglican.

And don't worry .... contrary to what you may hear from others (and read from books depending on who wrote it), the Catholic Church DOES NOT view you as "unsaved" if you aren't Catholic. It just views that you are missing out on a fuller experience since we maintain that we make up the Body of Christ, which unfortunately has been scattered due to so many denominations, as well as the Church in which Christ established. But nonetheless, the Church views all those denominations as Christian and considers all their baptisms as valid.

Hope that helps.

MoNiCa4316 · #3 3rd November 2009, 12:27 PM

Hi Joe, I read a bit of your thread that you linked, and I have to wonder..if perhaps through some misunderstanding your view of the Catholic teaching isn't entirely correct. If so, no wonder you are rejecting those particular teachings..to be honest I'm not sure if they exist! Which ones are you referring to? Can you perhaps tell us more about your beliefs and the "different form of Christianity"? Just trying to figure it out..

God bless.

JoeJoe83 · #4 4th November 2009, 01:04 AM

Winter, I thank you for your reply. It's posts like yours that help me feel better about the Catholic Church.

You got it right, I was basically wondering if someone like myself is "outside" salvation, given I was sort of born in Catholicism and maybe more should be expected of me.

JoeJoe83 · #5 4th November 2009, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by MoNiCa4316

Hi Joe, I read a bit of your thread that you linked, and I have to wonder..if perhaps through some misunderstanding your view of the Catholic teaching isn't entirely correct. If so, no wonder you are rejecting those particular teachings..to be honest I'm not sure if they exist! Which ones are you referring to? Can you perhaps tell us more about your beliefs and the "different form of Christianity"? Just trying to figure it out.. God bless.

I appreciate your response and without sounding like I'm trying to "preach" I'll explain what I've understood.

I'll explain it in the simplest form. Two members of this forum are very frequent posters of this form of Christianity and this is how I discovered it.

It's is not Catholicism I have any issue with. I tend to like the "forgivefullness" of Catholic teaching. It's the teaching that some will not be saved.

The teaching I learned is very similar to calvanism, except for one feature, the "non elect" are not human beings, they're the "tares" which are demons which inhabit every human being. Each human soul is a child of God and brother in Christ, despite their belief. If this believe differently than Jesus, it's the demon that caused this and this is who will be punished.

THat's it in it's simpliest form and the philosophical and scriptual evidence of this is astonishing to me atleast, in both the OT and NT.

MoNiCa4316 · #6 4th November 2009, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by JoeJoe83

I appreciate your response and without sounding like I'm trying to "preach" I'll explain what I've understood.

I'll explain it in the simplest form. Two members of this forum are very frequent posters of this form of Christianity and this is how I discovered it.

It's is not Catholicism I have any issue with. I tend to like the "forgivefullness" of Catholic teaching. It's the teaching that some will not be saved.

The teaching I learned is almost identical to calvanism, except for one feature, the "non elect" are not human beings, they're the "tares" which are demons which inhabit every human being. Each human soul is a child of God and brother in Christ, despite their belief. If this believe differently than Jesus, it's the demon that caused this and this is who will be punished.

THat's it in it's simpliest form and the philosophical and scriptual evidence of this is astonishing to me atleast, in both the OT and NT.

Thanks for the explanation Joe. Would you say that there is no free will? What i'm thinking is, if someone rejects God, would you say they still had a part in that decision, or not? If they were to die, would they automatically accept Him again because the demon is gone? sry if I've misunderstood.

But if so, - would you say our consciousness is an illusion? (because we consciously experience our decisions as our own)

lol sorry so many questions, just trying to figure out

ProScribe · #7 4th November 2009, 01:42 AM

My attitude toward the Catholic Church is similiar to that of a student learning and experiencing it as I study about the history of Christianity. While I was chrismated as an Orthodox Christian I never did complete the RCIA program.

~

MoNiCa4316 · #8 4th November 2009, 01:43 AM

I think the Catholic view is that each person is given an option to come to God or not.. they're each given a choice. And they are free to accept or reject it. It is not forced, because if God had forced us to love Him, it would no longer be love... and He created us for love. If they choose to accept grace, God will give them everything necessary for their salvation (but they can still walk away later on). If they choose to reject it, God will keep on trying to lead them to Him, until they die..but if they keep on rejecting, their heart will become so hardened that grace would have little to no effect on them. (but there is still hope for tehse people as long as they're alive). I believe if we pray for people to come to God, more graces would come to them for conversion... I feel sad too when I think of hell, but so does Christ, He grieves over every lost soul.... I guess this is a risk He was willing to take, because the alternative (no free will) removes any possibility of love or communion with Him, which is why we were created. God is the Trinity and could be described as a relationship.. He created the world to also be in relationship with Him... and this requires love, which is a choice, and a type of self giving.

that's my perspective at least..

I think if God had taken away our free will so that everyone would be saved, He'd be letting the devil win, cause what the devil wants is to destroy goodness...and there would be no love, no goodness in a Heaven that is not based on choice. (if you think about the definition of love..)

God bless

Dark_Lite · #9 4th November 2009, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by JoeJoe83

I appreciate your response and without sounding like I'm trying to "preach" I'll explain what I've understood.

I'll explain it in the simplest form. Two members of this forum are very frequent posters of this form of Christianity and this is how I discovered it.

It's is not Catholicism I have any issue with. I tend to like the "forgivefullness" of Catholic teaching. It's the teaching that some will not be saved.

The teaching I learned is very similar to calvanism, except for one feature, the "non elect" are not human beings, they're the "tares" which are demons which inhabit every human being. Each human soul is a child of God and brother in Christ, despite their belief. If this believe differently than Jesus, it's the demon that caused this and this is who will be punished.

THat's it in it's simpliest form and the philosophical and scriptual evidence of this is astonishing to me atleast, in both the OT and NT.

Calvinism is a logical playground of oddities invented by John Calvin 500 years by blowing Augustine's teachings out of proportion. But anyway, that's another story.

Catholicism is a lot more lenient with regards to "who can go to heaven" teachings than many other "conservative" denominations. Huzzah invincible ignorance!

WarriorAngel · #10 4th November 2009, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoeJoe83

I firstly want to thank anyone who reads this and helps me with my question.

I have had great struggles with understanding religion and trying to find what is right. If you would like to learn more about this confusion, although it is not required reading to answer me question, you may read here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7158639/

My question is: I grew up Catholic and up until I was about 18 I considered myself Catholic. I am now 26. I have great love and respect for the Catholic Church and it's members and administrators.

I however have some confusions with Catholic teachings both scripturally and philosophically.

This has led me to discover a different form of Christianity, that although is not that different, it is not "Catholic."

I do not reject the Catholic Church, I want to make that very clear. But in times of emotional struggle I often get angry and it causes me to move closer to this alternative form of Christianity, which scripturually and philosophically makes sense to me.

It's very important to know, that I take religion as humbly as possible. I often state to myself that I believe "Whatever Jesus tells me." If Jesus approaches me and tells me the Catholic Church is correct, then I believe every word of it.

However as of right now, I lean towards this understanding I have come to know over the past year that, to me, makes sense.

My question is: Where do I stand with the Catholic Church? I was told on here to "don't reject anything" and I think I should be fine.

What are your thoughts?

I thank you all in advance for any kind assistance you can offer me, and I want you to know I've made it a point to love all people including all of you and I hope Jesus would want me to.

Ok, well ask yourself if is it good to give into anger in the 1st place? And if you are struggling with that veniel sin - notice how it redirects you?

I was once in a similar spot as you - altho i didnt go to other Christian faiths - i was rather - what's the word for this - i dont know..[?]
Um, i was empty. [that could be the word]
I didnt understand Catholicism, but retained my ties to the Church.

Basically - i didnt know much anything. Altho i did go to a Catholic school. I did go to Mass, i did receive the sacraments...
But i still wore the veil over my eyes. I dont think it was intent - but restlessness. Confusion...With a blend of wanting - wanting to know and feel faith.

It took 7 years of prayer for God to send down His graces after i was tested... on how much i wanted it.

My questions were:
Where did the Church get its rules?
How did we have a Pope?
What were the actual teachings?
How did we get from point A to point B?

IE - i knew the Church survived all other new founded churches...
But what was the significance?
What did scriptures really mean?
[i read them rather clumsily]

History of the Church and the fathers from the beginning have helped tremendously. I do understand where the rules came from..
BUT i had to start somewhere - where you are now.
1st believing Christ set up a Church.

Then i followed the dots.

www.newadvent.org/fathers
Reading St John Chrysostom's homiles really helped understand scriptures.

Of course - it helps to know Jesus established a single Church and not a variety of many theologies. And it helps that the Church denounced all other heresies since the start.
And it also helps to know Matthew 16 of the Gospel is where Jesus established the Pope [and the gates of hell not prevailing - means the Church He established would NOT entertain heresy - ever] and then read the fathers who give us the path of those who succeeded one another. [St Ireneaus]

Also finding that St Peter himself ordained Clement l to succeed him eventually - means the Apostles were already setting up successors and especially to St Peter who's episcopate [Chair] had to be retained.

Hebrews tells us we must obey the prelates [Bishops]

Its a fascinating journey - and one that has concreted my faith.

Read how the Church teaches - then scriptures will make sense.