I often state to myself that I believe "Whatever Jesus tells me." If Jesus approaches me and tells me the Catholic Church is correct, then I believe every word of it.
To me this statement says it all, Joe.
So what are you doing in your life to listen to Jesus?
Some possible ideas--lectio divina, adoration, going on a silent directed retreat.
Those silent, solitary experiences are probably much more important in helping you to listen to Jesus than experiences within an institutional Church setting of any denomination. (Although all of those are sponsored by the Catholic Church, and two out of the three are sponsored by other denominations as well.)
Of course Jesus doesn't always speak to us directly, but he may put individuals or circumstances in our lives that help us to discern his message.
So go in peace, with the assurance that as you listen and seek God in the quiet, you will find your answer.
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Theodore Roosevelt said, “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.”
Joe, i made a long post [additionally] which went kapoot cos my internet went down. [grrrr]
Two things and i hope i make this shorter...
1) Trying to discern for yourself if the Holy Spirit is speaking to you is impossible. Which is why Jesus left a Church to speak to us for all time.
Satan is clever at twisting scriptures...and so St Peter tells us we try to wrestle scriptures to our own condemnation.
2) St Augustine referred to 'we' as in 'the Church' when he said we were predestined to be saved. He was referring to the Catholic Church. He was a Bishop of the Church and never taught outside the scope of the Tradition.
He says so himself and further reading on his 'predestination' will show you he stood behind what the Church said. The CHURCH [not individuals] was foreshadowed in the OT - hence since the beginning - God had predestined His Church and we would be saved via the teachings [deposit of faith] within that Church.
Ok..have a great day!
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Matthew Chapter 7
7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
I firstly want to thank anyone who reads this and helps me with my question.
I have had great struggles with understanding religion and trying to find what is right. If you would like to learn more about this confusion, although it is not required reading to answer me question, you may read here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7158639/
My question is: I grew up Catholic and up until I was about 18 I considered myself Catholic. I am now 26. I have great love and respect for the Catholic Church and it's members and administrators.
If you will prayerfully read through The Catechism of The Catholic Church, it will greatly help dispel a lot of the confusion and clarify the scriptural basis of Catholic teaching. It'll take a couple of months, but is well worth the effort.
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Wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.
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Ora, ora pro nobis.
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
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HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUMQUOD PRO VOBIS TRADÈTUR.
(Luke 22:19 b - This isMy body which is given up for you.)
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Dirige, Dominus Deus meus, in conspectu tuo viam meam
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Agnus Dei Qui tolis peccata mundi miserere nobis.
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Adoramus te, Christe
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If you would like to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ and His Church, please ask me about the chnetwork dot org. I promise, if you unite yourself to Jesus Christ through His Church, you will experience the great gift He has promised to those who follow Him. As Jesus said, "He who eats My body and drinks My blood lives in Me and I in him and I will raise him up on the last day." And He is faithful and sure to keep His promises. Repent, turn to the Gospel and be saved and you will have everlasting life. (Mark 1:15)
"I have set before you life and death, a blessing and a curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live" -Deuteronomy 30:19
Thanks for the explanation Joe. Would you say that there is no free will? What i'm thinking is, if someone rejects God, would you say they still had a part in that decision, or not? If they were to die, would they automatically accept Him again because the demon is gone? sry if I've misunderstood.
But if so, - would you say our consciousness is an illusion? (because we consciously experience our decisions as our own)
lol sorry so many questions, just trying to figure out
This is my biggest confusion, free will. I have not been able to logically explain it and this is something I've been racking my brain over for the last 5 years. I am convinced as I can be, humanly, that free will does not exist. THe more I read about it and the more I think about it, I am convinced that no one on this earth can give me a logical explanation of how free will operates. Additionaly, from my perspective, scripture, to me, is very clear that free will does not exist, the evidence in the OT and NT is also very obvious of this.
I don't know why God would create evil (the Bible says He did) and they force humans into a life filled with it knowing that some of them would fall victim to it.
Ok, well ask yourself if is it good to give into anger in the 1st place? And if you are struggling with that veniel sin - notice how it redirects you?
I was once in a similar spot as you - altho i didnt go to other Christian faiths - i was rather - what's the word for this - i dont know..[?]
Um, i was empty. [that could be the word] I didnt understand Catholicism, but retained my ties to the Church.
Basically - i didnt know much anything. Altho i did go to a Catholic school. I did go to Mass, i did receive the sacraments...
But i still wore the veil over my eyes. I dont think it was intent - but restlessness. Confusion...With a blend of wanting - wanting to know and feel faith.
It took 7 years of prayer for God to send down His graces after i was tested... on how much i wanted it.
My questions were:
Where did the Church get its rules?
How did we have a Pope?
What were the actual teachings?
How did we get from point A to point B?
IE - i knew the Church survived all other new founded churches...
But what was the significance?
What did scriptures really mean?
[i read them rather clumsily]
History of the Church and the fathers from the beginning have helped tremendously. I do understand where the rules came from..
BUT i had to start somewhere - where you are now.
1st believing Christ set up a Church.
Of course - it helps to know Jesus established a single Church and not a variety of many theologies. And it helps that the Church denounced all other heresies since the start.
And it also helps to know Matthew 16 of the Gospel is where Jesus established the Pope [and the gates of hell not prevailing - means the Church He established would NOT entertain heresy - ever] and then read the fathers who give us the path of those who succeeded one another. [St Ireneaus]
Also finding that St Peter himself ordained Clement l to succeed him eventually - means the Apostles were already setting up successors and especially to St Peter who's episcopate [Chair] had to beretained.
Hebrews tells us we must obey the prelates [Bishops]
Its a fascinating journey - and one that has concreted my faith.
Read how the Church teaches - then scriptures will make sense.
Why is it a sin to be angry? How can something beyond my control be a sin?
I appreciate your suggestions, but my main problem is with the concept of why evil exists and free will, which I have in no way been able to explain nor has anyone else been able to explain to me.
This is my biggest confusion, free will. I have not been able to logically explain it and this is something I've been racking my brain over for the last 5 years. I am convinced as I can be, humanly, that free will does not exist. THe more I read about it and the more I think about it, I am convinced that no one on this earth can give me a logical explanation of how free will operates. Additionaly, from my perspective, scripture, to me, is very clear that free will does not exist, the evidence in the OT and NT is also very obvious of this.
I don't know why God would create evil (the Bible says He did) and they force humans into a life filled with it knowing that some of them would fall victim to it.
If He hadn't created evil, then everyone would choose God. Just being honest.
__________________ Mary Pray for us, now and at the hour of our death.
Why is it a sin to be angry? How can something beyond my control be a sin?
I appreciate your suggestions, but my main problem is with the concept of why evil exists and free will, which I have in no way been able to explain nor has anyone else been able to explain to me.
Anger can lead to sin.
For instance it leads to murder, or obsessions or other vices that can break our friendship with God.
Anger happens - i know that - i am a tempermental Irish German. But if we give into anger and let it pull us away from God - as a for instance - is it good or does it lead to sin?
So yea, it is veniel and can lead to mortal if we do not mend from it.
Evil is outside of God. Right? You follow? Because you have to understand that.
All created beings with a free will are susceptible to evil because we have the gift of free will.
Sure God could have protected us from evil. Including His angels who fell.
BUT - and understand there is a but - GOD doesnt want us to be puppets. He wants us to proove ourselves in returning our faith and trust to Him Who gave us everything.
NOW - let's put this into a more practical explanation that we understand.
Rest assured God made the analogy of the Church being His bride... Because a BRIDE willingly chooses their husband...and LOVES that husband.
Now if Joe Smoe came sniffing around prior to the marriage and the soon to be bride choose that 'smoe' instead - then they willingly and with full freedom walked away. Letting someone decide is absolutely LOVE.
And that shows if the woman loved the one she would marry or if temptation could drive her away.
Surely you would not want a forced marriage with a woman who accepted all the finery you gave her but didnt show or proove she ever loved you..?
Am i right?
Would you have a happy marriage if said bride was a taker and never a giver.
...never showed she cared - but had her hands out for whatever you gave?
God is LOVE.
And because He is all good - and our Creator - He has given us the gift to choose Him in return.
So anyone created outside of Him - will have imperfections because we are not Him - and not good.
He let us choose - but yet - He still did not abandon us - He came - He suffered - He died - He rose again to show us that love and power.
We are but fragile creatures that He so eagerly wants to hold us and protect us and love us [because the magnitude of His love is unexplainable] BUT He lets us choose Him... THINK of the magnitude of hurt He feels when we reject Him.
So evil is a concept outside of Himself that He could protect us from - BUT where is the merit in that? Where is the true love if we are but puppets..?
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Matthew Chapter 7
7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
This is my biggest confusion, free will. I have not been able to logically explain it and this is something I've been racking my brain over for the last 5 years. I am convinced as I can be, humanly, that free will does not exist. THe more I read about it and the more I think about it, I am convinced that no one on this earth can give me a logical explanation of how free will operates. Additionaly, from my perspective, scripture, to me, is very clear that free will does not exist, the evidence in the OT and NT is also very obvious of this.
The Bible can be clear on pretty much anything if you look at little bits and pieces of it. It has been used to justify everything from slavery to Jesus supporting homosexuality.
The Bible clearly teaches a form of predestination as well as free will. Both the Calvinist and Arminian camps seem to overemphasize one aspect or another of each end. The best explanation I've found for free will thus far is compatibilism. It is a type of soft determinism that allows for free will to take place in a limited fashion. The particular form of compatibilism that I find to be the best explanation is free will limited by predetermined situations. The choices you will freely make, for example, will be very different when a gun is pointed at your head than when you're in an idyllic meadow without a care in the world.
Not even considering various scriptural support for different free will-predestination teachings, the problem basically comes down to this: how is humanity free if there is a god outside time and space that experiences things outside of time? He foreknows what will happen. That means, even if we "freely" choose something, it was still foreknown by God to happen. That means it was predetermined in some way. There is no visible predetermining mechanism, but it was still bound to happen no matter what.
At the same time, I find it impossible to reconcile God as described by historical Christianity (which for me, is Catholicism) with God as described by Calvinism. Calvinism is mostly internally consistent, but fails to integrate itself into the rest of Christian theology rather well when it comes to things like "all-loving God." This paragraph could be debated endlessly (and it has been), but that's for another place and time.
So, I am left with a few interesting options. My current line of thinking is somewhere between a heavily (and I want to stress heavily) modified version of open theism and something similar to Molinism.
I don't know why God would create evil (the Bible says He did) and they force humans into a life filled with it knowing that some of them would fall victim to it.
The best answer I have found to that question is the Irenaean theodicy. It basically states that God intends the world (universe) as a place of soul-making.
__________________ Causing confusion one avatar at a time.
which went kapoot cos my internet went down. [grrrr]
What is His will? 
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