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4th November 2009, 01:14 AM
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Reps: 24,345,995,963,013 (power: 24,345,995,973) | | Originally Posted by ThankGodforGod  Good, the last thing I want are bigots representing American values to Afghans and Iraqis.
What we need are fighters.... not gay-rights activists.
I think the Commandant knows whats good for morale and what isn't.
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4th November 2009, 02:06 AM
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Reps: 1,048,985,195,837,867,008 (power: 1,048,985,195,837,901) | | | This is only about morale because people have been told for years that Gays are weak, they are not. Witness the Spartan 300.
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4th November 2009, 04:51 AM
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Reps: 4,405,951,397,236,971 (power: 4,405,951,397,242) | | Originally Posted by BlackAndy What we need are fighters.... not gay-rights activists.
I think the Commandant knows whats good for morale and what isn't.
Just like all those other military types that were against the breaking down of racial segregation in the army, yeah? |
4th November 2009, 06:19 AM
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Reps: 178,450,521,866,537,152 (power: 178,450,521,866,563) | | | The Spartan 300 were gay? I smell a bit of revisionist history. Based on what I've read the Sacred Band from Macedonia was but the Spartans were not.
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4th November 2009, 08:44 AM
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Reps: 12,983,063,843,906,332 (power: 12,983,063,843,910) | | Originally Posted by Billnew yea, not like we ever had bigots change our country before, oh wait.
There were the bigots that fought off the English, the bigots that ended slavery, the bigots that fought against German aggression, the bigots that fought to improve minorities rights.
Bigot:somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity,who refuses to accept different views bigot definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta
Yea, who cares if homosexuals and heterosexual men live in the same room, shower in the same comon showers.
Figure out a way to keep one sided sexual attraction out of normal every day life, and then we can talk about allowing openly gay people in the military.
We don't force women to live in the same room with men, why should we force straight men to live with homosexual men?
I could care less who wears the uniform, as long as they are honorable people. But like any major change, there is alot of questions to be answered.
We are not talking about a normal working relationship, you go to work then tell everyone bye and go home. Tradtional work relationship has been proven to work.
The military lives in close quarters, in some cases sharing open showers, changing clothes with the same people around regularly. (This is different from the dressing rooms at the gym.) You have to live with every same sex person around you, seeing you naked. Meaning the occsional stare or glance, is more then just some random encounter. Living with someone that might be looking at you sexually, is no different then men and women being forced to live, dress, or shower together.
Currently, you don't know who is or isn't gay. They aren't as open about it, and are less likely to be noticed looking. When it is opened up, then everyone will know, and won't be trying to conceal their interest.
When the homosexuals start facing sexual harrasment, how many here will claim the military is weeding them out? Because the people I know and have seen, when they are "out", they behaive just like the traditional construction crew watching women going by.
Will you accuse the military of special persecution when the newly "out people" proclaim their interest in fellow soldiers to openly?
Your point becomes moot when you realize that the Brits have been doing this for a long time without any of the problems you are talking about.
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4th November 2009, 08:45 AM
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Reps: 12,983,063,843,906,332 (power: 12,983,063,843,910) | | Originally Posted by Autumnleaf The Spartan 300 were gay? I smell a bit of revisionist history. Based on what I've read the Sacred Band from Macedonia was but the Spartans were not.
No, they loved little boys, not just other men. This information is not hidden, google it.
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The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
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War is God's was of teaching Americans geography.
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4th November 2009, 08:49 AM
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Reps: 12,983,063,843,906,332 (power: 12,983,063,843,910) | | Originally Posted by BlackAndy What we need are fighters.... not gay-rights activists.
I think the Commandant knows whats good for morale and what isn't.
No we need unit cohesion, creating an "us and them" attitude is just about the worst thing you can do. Would you agree that our military operated better when we had all white, all black and all Japanese units?
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The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
-JFK
War is God's was of teaching Americans geography.
-Unknown |
4th November 2009, 09:14 AM
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Reps: 264,690,443,271,458,624 (power: 264,690,443,271,483) | | Originally Posted by Steezie So the message here is "I shouldn't have to do my job if I dont want to"?
No, the message here is the General has lived in the military most of his life, he knows how it works. He has an opinion, and he has offered it to Obama. He nor any other General has threatened to disobey orders. He has earned the right to respectfully disagree with his superior. Just as any military person can.(respectfully disagree) It does not mean when the order comes down, they won't follow them. Originally Posted by BlackAndy What we need are fighters.... not gay-rights activists.
I think the Commandant knows whats good for morale and what isn't.
Exactly. Policies must change, and probably a refresher course in sexual harrassment, with homosexual inclusions in the policy. Either side can sexual harrass the other. Which is what verbal abuse of homosexuals is.
Currently it isn't a factor, because the "victim" can't complain, because that would "tell".(Don't ask, don't tell) Originally Posted by nolongerhome Just like all those other military types that were against the breaking down of racial segregation in the army, yeah?
True. Like I said, things would have to be changed in the military to allow gays in the military. Originally Posted by ThankGodforGod Your point becomes moot when you realize that the Brits have been doing this for a long time without any of the problems you are talking about.
No problems of another nation completely cross the divide. British people have different problems, this is due to different cultures. I am not saying it shouldn't happen(Openly gay people in the military) but it should be done slowly, and with care to prevent abuse of or hardships to the soldiers.
Will the people next demand that the military change its laws on sexual relations? When I was in, and probably still is, strange sexual postions was a crime, no specific sexual orientation is included in this law. Which means both sides could be arrested if caught doing the worng act. (Basically mercenary position is the only legal way.)
Alot of people not in the military would say change the laws, any that need change. But the military has these laws to uphold the integrety of the forces. Watering them down, or completely changing the laws will allow the military to become more like society, and that is not a step up.
Like everything else, Pres.Obama says he will "change" policy, but he doesn't know how to do it.
Gitmo closing, military out of Iran by Christmas/end of the year, etc.
Nothing in goverment is easy to change, his inexperience shows when he
states he will change the status quo, and then nothing happens, very quickly.
"Don't ask, Don't tell, change? Don't hokd your breath.
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4th November 2009, 09:39 AM
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Reps: 178,450,521,866,537,152 (power: 178,450,521,866,563) | | Originally Posted by ThankGodforGod No, they loved little boys, not just other men. This information is not hidden, google it.
Google it? You're kidding right? I could google purple people eaters and find out where they are and who they are currently eating.
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4th November 2009, 10:03 AM
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Reps: 136,588,282,744,094,096 (power: 136,588,282,744,101) | | Originally Posted by ThankGodforGod No we need unit cohesion, creating an "us and them" attitude is just about the worst thing you can do. Would you agree that our military operated better when we had all white, all black and all Japanese units?
Major Tate: Sir, we're not prejudiced toward homosexuals.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: You just don't want to see them serving in the Armed Forces?
Major Tate: No sir, I don't.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: 'Cause they impose a threat to unit discipline and cohesion.
Major Tate: Yes, sir.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: That's what I think, too. I also think the military wasn't designed to be an instrument of social change.
Major Tate: Yes, sir.
Admiral Percy Fitzwallace: The problem with that is that's what they were saying about me 50 years ago - blacks shouldn't serve with whites. It would disrupt the unit. You know what? It did disrupt the unit. The unit got over it. The unit changed. I'm an admiral in the U.S. Navy and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff... Beat that with a stick.
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