A question...

This is for creationists. Having been a creationist and fundamentalist in belief myself I know what it's like to look at the world as it would appear to a creationist. I can understand where they are coming from and what they are trying to say. However, though long hours of conversation with my mother I've come to the conclusion that she is utterly incapable of understanding worldviews she opposes.

Now, for those of you who still hold the creationist view around here, You've no doubt read enough threads to understand evolution, IF you've been paying attention you've really no excuse not to be able to understand the basics of the scientific worldview. So my question is this; Do you? can you place yourself in the mind of your opponent and see what he sees from his point of view?

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"I would still reply, that the knavery and folly of men are such common phenomena, that I should rather believe the most extraordinary events to arise from their concurrence, than admit of so signal a violation of the laws of nature."
-David Hume

Science is not a "world view," in the sense that you mean it. Creationists are guilty of conflating their faith as equal to the level of scientific understanding. It must not necessarily be a false dichotomy. Creationists are taught to believe that ToE is wrong, evil, and heretical to their faith. And if it's wrong, evil and heretical, then those who accept ToE are doing so on blind faith, just as creationists do. Once they have established in their minds that Creationism and ToE are two equally valid "world views," they can then argue against ToE.

I have observed two types of creationists at CF over the years. The first is the type who has been indoctrinated by their church and the usual creationist outlets (ICR, DI, DrDino, AiG, etc.). These are the folks who never had much interest in science to begin with, and will jump on the boards for what I call "drive-by creationism." These are the posters who pick a thread, spew the PRATTs, then 'drive away' never to be heard from again. These are those who have it all figured out and are staid (arrogant in some cases) in their belief, with no real interest in learning.

The second type of creationist is the one who is intelligent enough to realize that there is indeed a world outside the box of creationist fundamentalism. These are those who tend to be more educated and take an interest in science. They research their questions from real scientific resources and try to understand what the ToE really says. They ask sincere questions. Gradually, they begin to understand the evidence, they realize that there is no evil global cabal of scientists trying to "prove that god doesn't exist," but real normal down to earth people doing good research, continaully adding to our existing body of knowledge. The more they study, they begin to slowly understand how every field of science (botany, paleontology, molecular genetics, anatomy, cosmology, geology, anthropology, etc.) all support ToE.

...And then there's the ones who apparently do read and seem to sort of understand, but they live in some sort of fantasy world where Natural Laws are either mutable, mean whatever they need them to mean or as in the case of those such as Dad or AV1, have no real analogue in any world outside of the writings of Dr. Seuss.

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"I would still reply, that the knavery and folly of men are such common phenomena, that I should rather believe the most extraordinary events to arise from their concurrence, than admit of so signal a violation of the laws of nature."
-David Hume

Yes, to a point --- in fact, I feel I know your position better than you guys know mine.

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This statement is rather amusing, considering the numbers of ex-creationists on the board. We've been where you are, inventing tortuous explanations in our attempts to rationalize reality with an inconsistently literalistic interpretation of the Bible.

We've grown out of it, and that means there's even hope for you too, AV.

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Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
-- Eric Hoffer

Why? Do they form a circus? Is that why most of you --- if not all of you --- have no clue what Embedded Age Creation is --- let alone, heard of it?

Is that why I'm mistaken for a deceiver, YEC, OEC, Omphalos, and even Last Thursday; not to mention troll and supertroll? It sounds like what you want me to do is go prodigal like you did.

No, thanks.

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Maneki, would you give me an example, please, of where you personally have invented a tortuous explanation in an attempt to rationalize reality with an inconsistently literalistic interpretation of the Bible?

What was the question asked, and what was your answer?

Be specific please.

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Anyone here who has read your postings has a pretty clear idea of your rationalization scheme. And it's also pretty clear that your rationalization scheme has pretty clear ties to YEC and especially Omphalos. Perhaps if you bothered to learn a little more about Omphalos, you'd agree; you might even learn that Omphalos and Last Thursdayism are basically the same.

Nope, only have life more abundantly. It's amazing how much free time and energy you have after you stop having to actively ignore the myriad things that show the flaws in creationism and Biblical literalism.

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Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
-- Eric Hoffer

Interesting how you changed "embedded age" to "rationalization scheme".

So you are not admitting that anyone here who has read my postings has a pretty clear idea of Embedded Age Creation?

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Interesting how you pick out the least relevant part of his post to comment on.

And actually AV, everyone knows what you're talking about when you say embedded age creation. We ask questions and then you dumb it down because you think we don't understand you. Problem is we don't need you to dumb it down, we think it's dumb enough as it is. We want you to smarten it up and back it with something other than "Genesis 1:1, therefore I'm right".

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"When work seems overwhelming, remember that you are going to die"
Strangely enough this motivates me.