Messianic Jews and the Gifts of the Spirit

AudioArtist · #1 2nd November 2009, 10:06 PM

Hello everyone!

There has been an interest in Messianic Judaism bubbling away in the back of my mind for a while now... It began with a desire to investigate the Jewish roots of Christianity, and then I watched a documentary which touched on Messianic Judaism, which increased my interest further.

My question is: What is the general attitude and practice of Messianic Jews in regards to the manifestations/gifts of the Spirit (tongues, prophecy, healings, words of knowledge, etc.)? Are they believed to be in operation today? And, if so - is this more of an intellectual acknowledgement, or do Messianic believers tend to actually practice the gifts and demonstrate God's power during services or in events connected with the community?

Thanks for any answers!

JudaicChristian · #2 2nd November 2009, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by AudioArtist

Hello everyone!

There has been an interest in Messianic Judaism bubbling away in the back of my mind for a while now... It began with a desire to investigate the Jewish roots of Christianity, and then I watched a documentary which touched on Messianic Judaism, which increased my interest further.

My question is: What is the general attitude and practice of Messianic Jews in regards to the manifestations/gifts of the Spirit (tongues, prophecy, healings, words of knowledge, etc.)? Are they believed to be in operation today? And, if so - is this more of an intellectual acknowledgement, or do Messianic believers tend to actually practice the gifts and demonstrate God's power during services or in events connected with the community?

Thanks for any answers!

Only Yahwah preforms the super natural.

AudioArtist · #3 3rd November 2009, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by JudaicChristian

Only Yahwah preforms the super natural.

Yes, I know that. Perhaps my wording could be misconstrued to suggest otherwise - but all I meant was God's power working through individuals.

Anyway, I was asking quite a simple question... about the charisms of the Holy Spirit and the general approach of Messianic believers.

Shamash Of Yeshua · #4 3rd November 2009, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by JudaicChristian

Only Yahwah preforms the super natural.

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself. But the Father who stays in Me does His works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he shall do also. And greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father. "And whatever you ask in My Name, that I shall do, in order that the Father might be esteemed in the Son.
(Joh 14:10-13 The Scriptures 1998+)
I believe we can be a vehicle for works by Our Father as Yeshua said we would do even greater works.
My 2 cents.
Tag

Heber · #5 3rd November 2009, 04:55 AM

AA - the answers you get here will be quite varied. As MJism doesn't have a statement of faith (apart from what CF imposes on us, here) people can hold to what they want by way of an understanding of the Scriptures. You will find on here Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian Messianic Believers as well as Jewish and Gentile Messianic Believers; there are also Jews and Christians who are valued posters but who may not be Messianic, as such.

I think the simple answer is that for a number of folk on here the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the use of those gifts are a part of everday life, but there will also be a significant number for whom that is not the case, for a variety of reasons.

There is a lot of work being done to come up with a systematic theology and a basic statement of belief for those who call themslves Messianic Believers (Jews or Gentiles) but it is still some way off at this point in time.

You may well find a lot of intense debate on this issue.

PS Glad to see another from England on CF

Tishri1 · #6 4th November 2009, 07:46 PM

check out this congregation

Tree of Life San Diego, Messianic, Congregation, Jewish, Synagogue, Yeshua, Messiah, Jewish Holidays, Live Stream, Videos, mp3

they are very balanced IMO and please call or email them, they are very personable as well....

IMO I think many MJ congregations have lost that special closeness to Abba felt thru engagement with His Holy Spirit..on the other hand, some Churches mean well but may be putting God on "display" in their services and I find that bordering on distasteful ....

Tree of Life is very balanced, and even though I dont attend I love how I see them operate and am friends with many of them.

Our Congregation has a very specific vision to reach and welcome the Jewish community in among us so although we do believe in the Gifts of Abba's Spirit, the teaching and manifestation in our services will be different in our Synagogue because of our vision to be an outreach to the Jews

JudaicChristian · #7 4th November 2009, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Shamash Of Yeshua

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself. But the Father who stays in Me does His works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he shall do also. And greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father. "And whatever you ask in My Name, that I shall do, in order that the Father might be esteemed in the Son.
(Joh 14:10-13 The Scriptures 1998+)
I believe we can be a vehicle for works by Our Father as Yeshua said we would do even greater works.
My 2 cents.
Tag

Yahshua was speaking to the disciples. However, I do believe it's possible for Yahwah to work through other people. At this time Yahwah is not literally in this world. When the Two Witnesses are here, then Yahwah will again be literally present in this world. The fact that He is not literally present at this time, does not keep Him from doing what ever He wants.
Yahwah and Yahshua are one in unity.

Shamash Of Yeshua · #8 4th November 2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by JudaicChristian

Yahshua was speaking to the disciples. However, I do believe it's possible for Yahwah to work through other people. At this time Yahwah is not literally in this world. When the Two Witnesses are here, then Yahwah will again be literally present in this world. The fact that He is not literally present at this time, does not keep Him from doing what ever He wants.
Yahwah and Yahshua are one in unity.

What are you saying? That since Yeshua was speaking to the deciples that it was only meant for them? And also do you believe that his presense is not on earth while mentioning that YHWH and Yeshua are one in unity?
If what Yeshua prayed to the Father in John 17, I assume we who are living our lifes in Him are also ONE in unity as well, so therefore where we tread His Presense is there as well. There is more but I can't remember which deciple said that where they are the Kingdom is in the other persons presense.

"As You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. "And for them I set Myself apart, so that they too might be set apart in truth. "And I do not pray for these alone, but also for those believing in Me through their word, so that they all might be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, so that they too might be one in Us, so that the world might believe that You have sent Me. "And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that they might be one as We are one, "I in them, and You in Me, so that they might be perfected into one, so that the world knows that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
(Joh 17:18-23 The Scriptures 1998+)
I also believe that you can recieve the filling by laying on hands, but only by those who themselves have been given Ruach HaKodesh. Can't remember where I read it. Also another place that talks about those who can get Ruach HaKodesh are only those who are obediant and have faith, which means you can't be hanging on even the littlest thing this world has for you.
My other 2 cents worth.

JudaicChristian · #9 5th November 2009, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Shamash Of Yeshua

What are you saying? That since Yeshua was speaking to the deciples that it was only meant for them?

That bit of scripture was meant for the disciples, but that does not mean that Yahwah wont work through others. Being "one" is in the spiritual sense of the word.

Shamash Of Yeshua · #10 5th November 2009, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by JudaicChristian

That bit of scripture was meant for the disciples, but that does not mean that Yahwah wont work through others. Being "one" is in the spiritual sense of the word.

"As You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. "And for them I set Myself apart, so that they too might be set apart in truth. "And I do not pray for these alone, but also for those believing in Me through their word, so that they all might be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, so that they too might be one in Us, so that the world might believe that You have sent Me. "And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that they might be one as We are one, "I in them, and You in Me, so that they might be perfected into one, so that the world knows that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
(Joh 17:18-23 The Scriptures 1998+)
But also for those other then the disciples as in bold. Does that mean only those who heard from the disciples are the very last ones? I wouldn't think so. That would carry on through the generations of believers who also matured in the Faith.