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7th November 2009, 09:24 PM
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Reps: 4,764,076,357,041,536,000 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Staccato  The opinion of every human is an opinion inherently rooted in subjectivity. Only a human tyrant would try to convince you otherwise.
What do you mean by that? Human tyrants rule by objective thought? |
7th November 2009, 09:26 PM
|  | Tarut keeps on dreaming
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Reps: 22,655,783,805,506,600 (power: 22,655,783,805,515) | | Originally Posted by lordbt What do you mean by that? Human tyrants rule by objective thought?
No, rather they will attempt to convince you that there exists an objective opinion: their own, that they glean from reality or divine means due to their special abilities and skills. Their thought is no more objective than yours or mine.
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"I am an eye. I am a mechanical eye. I, a machine, I am showing you a world, the likes of which only I can see"
-Dziga Vertov
"But the work of man is only just beginning, and it remains to conquer all the violence entrenched in the recesses of our passion, for no race possesses the monopoly of beauty, of intelligence, of force. And there is place for all at the rendezvous of victory"
- Aimé Césaire
"God is more interested in justice than ritual; is more attuned to the cry of the oppressed than to the laudatory praises of the pious. What really matters is what is done and not what is simply preached"
- Leonardo Boff
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7th November 2009, 09:53 PM
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| | Join Date: 23rd February 2007 Location: Mentor, Ohio
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Reps: 4,764,076,357,041,536,000 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Staccato No, rather they will attempt to convince you that there exists an objective opinion: their own, that they glean from reality or divine means due to their special abilities and skills. Their thought is no more objective than yours or mine.
I agree with you when it comes to the 'divine' or other supernatural forms of knowledge, but with respect to reality, there is an objective reality from which we derive facts and form opinions. I cant think of a tyrant who appealed to reality to enforce his tyranny. There is no reading of objective law that I can think of that justifies one man or group of men tyrannizing another. |
7th November 2009, 10:38 PM
| | Tarut keeps on dreaming
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Reps: 22,655,783,805,506,600 (power: 22,655,783,805,515) | | Originally Posted by lordbt I agree with you when it comes to the 'divine' or other supernatural forms of knowledge, but with respect to reality, there is an objective reality from which we derive facts and form opinions.
There is indeed an objective reality, but I believe it is outside of the realm of human capacity to access it in an objective manner and, hence, form objective opinions. We view even the simplest of things through the subjective lens we find pulled over our eyes, by which I talk, of course, of our experiences and perceptions and it is through this lens that facts, and hence opinions, become filtered and diffused.
The human being is a subjective item in and of itself, of which there exists no perfect form or ideal type. I do not see how such a being, different from all others in reason and in rhyme, can be expected to engage with a given reality in an objective manner. The best we can do is seek to empiricise reality, but such a method provides no objective answer for those areas which escape empirical analysis (and even then, such answers are not always accepted). I cant think of a tyrant who appealed to reality to enforce his tyranny. There is no reading of objective law that I can think of that justifies one man or group of men tyrannizing another.
The tyrant does not appeal to reality as the objective "item" per se, but rather his opinion of that reality as objective in itself. The former would, as you say, be a pretty bizarre form of tyranny; the latter enthralls one to a human leader, placing him either as God or as the font of reality itself I suppose, depending on whether you buy into a theistic view.
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"I am an eye. I am a mechanical eye. I, a machine, I am showing you a world, the likes of which only I can see"
-Dziga Vertov
"But the work of man is only just beginning, and it remains to conquer all the violence entrenched in the recesses of our passion, for no race possesses the monopoly of beauty, of intelligence, of force. And there is place for all at the rendezvous of victory"
- Aimé Césaire
"God is more interested in justice than ritual; is more attuned to the cry of the oppressed than to the laudatory praises of the pious. What really matters is what is done and not what is simply preached"
- Leonardo Boff
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8th November 2009, 12:23 AM
|  | Sarcasm is kind of an art isn't it?
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Reps: 113,334,091,635,218,480 (power: 113,334,091,635,226) | | | I find it ironic that a poster who argues that the government destroys everything that it touches INSISTS that the government and his religion be intertwined.
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dir="ltr"> they told me if I voted for John McCain that I would get a President like Bush that would violate the airspace and sovereignty of an allied nation with a military force to assassinate a foreign national of another allied country and then their dead body would be dumped in the ocean. and they were right.
I support the arts. |
8th November 2009, 12:33 AM
|  | Moral Philosopher
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Reps: 111,713,900,778,221,888 (power: 111,713,900,778,240) | | Originally Posted by Allhart Our laws where based on them!
No they aren't. They're a religious monument and don't belong on federal property. Originally Posted by TerranceL I find it ironic that a poster who argues that the government destroys everything that it touches INSISTS that the government and his religion be intertwined.
That's EXACTLY right!
Ringo
__________________ "As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
-- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797. Presented to Congress and signed by everyone in attendance. "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.''
-- Madison's original proposal for the Bill of Rights
"I ain't afraid of your Yahweh
I ain't afraid of your Allah
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I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God"
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8th November 2009, 03:34 AM
|  | Huggee Of haL
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Reps: 4,060,607,994,377 (power: 4,060,608,001) | | | *wanders off to place R2D2, an X-wing, 4 tie-fighters, and the firefly transport Serenity on the Christmas tree near a few angels and crosses. With reindeer, sleighs, and some old ornaments from my childhood years* and all below the star on top. |
8th November 2009, 05:03 AM
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Reps: 93,489,950,375,983,120 (power: 93,489,950,376,010) | | Originally Posted by allhart As our forefathers said self evident, but without the word of God directing us to which voice of conscience to follow we could be miss lead or subjective in our opinions!
Interesting as it's completely absent from the Constitution. Originally Posted by cwolf20 *wanders off to place R2D2, an X-wing, 4 tie-fighters, and the firefly transport Serenity on the Christmas tree near a few angels and crosses. With reindeer, sleighs, and some old ornaments from my childhood years* and all below the star on top.
Ooooo cool! While I wouldn't be thrilled with it at city hall, I'd love to see what it looks like in your living room. Pic?
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8th November 2009, 06:23 AM
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Reps: 4,060,607,994,377 (power: 4,060,608,001) | | First I have to buy the tree actually... but at least the image of what I want it to look like is already set. Originally Posted by USincognito
Ooooo cool! While I wouldn't be thrilled with it at city hall, I'd love to see what it looks like in your living room. Pic?
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8th November 2009, 06:35 AM
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Reps: 93,489,950,375,983,120 (power: 93,489,950,376,010) | | Originally Posted by cwolf20 First I have to buy the tree actually... but at least the image of what I want it to look like is already set.
Sounds like a neat Christmas tree. If you're inclined when you do get it up, share a photo.
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(The Library of Alexandria) questioned the permanence of the stars, but did not question the justice of slavery - Carl Sagan in Cosmos | | |
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