Romans 6:19
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 12:1-2
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
2 Corinthians 3:18
And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:22-24
... to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Hebrews 13:20-21
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
__________________ To be reprobate is to be left in sin, not pushed or forced to sin. R. C. Sproul.
The point remains: why don't people have faith when they are given grace if grace leads to faith?
John 10: 25-26
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
__________________ To be reprobate is to be left in sin, not pushed or forced to sin. R. C. Sproul.
John 10: 25-26
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock.
You said that faith comes from grace. If that is the case, why do some people have grace but not faith?
__________________
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Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
Romans 6:19
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 12:1-2
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
2 Corinthians 3:18
And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:22-24
... to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Hebrews 13:20-21
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Oh, goodie.
__________________
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Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
Maybe, bling, you might consider the fact that God is spirit. Think about the c. 17,000 obvious breathes He gives you everyday, tragedy or no tragedy. Then figure out a way, if you were God, to show yourself to everyone more across 6,000 years, even into eternity.
How about this, grace is God's free gift to us. However He only gives grace to those who show they really love Him.
Originally Posted by Ephesians2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Faith produces actions which are the manifestation of the inner most being. This manifestation will only be evident during times of struggle, when it is hard to remain faithful. A good example of this is the love of a mother which is not evident when all is quiet, perhaps late on a Tuesday evening, it does however become evident when the mother cancels her plans for the evening, picks up some dinner from a drive thru after stopping by the store to pick up some supplies for an emergency school project that is due tomorrow, and then stay up until 10:30 with that child so that the project gets finished. It is also evident when she stays up for 32 straight hours tending a sick child.
Originally Posted by James 2:17
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Go ahead and tell your spouse you love them and then do absolutely nothing to show evidence of that and see how that works out for you.
__________________
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You said that faith comes from grace. If that is the case, why do some people have grace but not faith?
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians, did not believe in Jesus Christ, yet he had grace. Through a unique circumstance he came to believe. Grace is necessary to live, with or without faith. Faith is necessary to be born again, with or without grace. All people have grace. All of Gods gifts are also graces.
Last edited by Edward Palamar; 5th November 2009 at 08:46 PM.
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians, did not believe in Jesus Christ, yet he had grace. Through a unique circumstance he came to believe. Grace is necessary to live, with or without faith. Faith is necessary to be born again, with or without grace. All people have grace. All of Gods gifts are also graces.
Sure, but I'd like to hear from Yab as well.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don't mess with Yoda!
"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done.""
-C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce (emphasis mine)
"You must be imaginative, strong-hearted. You must try things that may not work, and you must not let anyone define your limits because of where you come from. Your only limit is your soul."
-Chef at the beginning of Ratatouille
If there is a God why does he not make Himself obvious?
We only really have two choices.
1: We believe in ourselves to find the answers of the creation of the universe.
Or
2: We believe God did it.
If we take either one of those two away, there wouldn't be a reason to doubt the other.
So we basically gave ourselves doubt through the free will God gave us.
Which kind of answers a lot of questions asked around here.
__________________ I'd be a atheist if it weren't for God.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
"Here lies an atheist; all dressed up and no place to go." Epitaph in Maryland cemetery
I tried atheism for a while, but my faith just wasn’t strong enough.
Those who go to Heaven ride on a pass and enter into blessings that they never earned, but all who go to hell pay their own way.
--John R. Rice
If He revealed himself so clearly that there could be no argument as to whether or not He exists, It would not aid in our salvation. Are we perfect from the time we first come into this world until the time we leave it? No, we are not, and knowing for an absolute fact that God is real will not make us capable of being perfect. It is not a part of us, and we know it. We have sinned in the past, and we will sin in the future. That is reality.
We also know that if we are to rely on our own efforts and therefore earn our own salvation, we must be perfect. There must have been no spot or blemish to our righteousness throughout our time here. With God there is no such thing as 'good enough'. It's like saying that someone who attempted to leap across a deep chasm made it because he was 2/3's of the way across before he fell. It's all or nothing.
But we have been given, quite literally, the means of obtaining salvation in spite of our human frailty. God has told us, "Trust me, and trust what I have done in order to save you, and I will justify you so that you may appear before me and live." The opposite of putting our trust in him is not self-reliance; it's arrogance.
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