| Messianic Judaism A forum for Messianic Jews and Gentiles |
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3rd November 2009, 07:39 PM
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Reps: 1,100,777,478,970,303,104 (power: 1,100,777,478,970,327) | | Originally Posted by FrenchAffair  Vast majority of European Jews are. Genetic studies show less than 5% of European Jews can even link their genetics back to the semetic people, let alone one of the 12 tribes.
Can you provide evidence for this outrageously sweeping statement?
For one thing, how on earth are we meant to trace links to the 12 tribes, without having any genetic material to compare with, in doing so. This is the kind of nonsense that is easy to say, but impossible to substantiate.
To address the OP, certainly there are Jews today, and regardless of their genetic links, today's Jews are the direct descendents of Abraham, and inheritors of the promises made to him, in relation to his people. It matters little whether their descent was through generations of Cohens and Levis, or whether it passed via Attila the Hun along the way; they are nonetheless Jews.
There is no such thing as a pedigree human of any race or any creed; we are all mongrels. But that does not mean that descriptive terms, whether of race or religion, have no meaning. Clearly they do.
What is also true, however, is that Jews in Israel who are not recent immigrants, are almost identical genetically with their Palestinian neighbours. This does not mean that they are not Jewish, nor that the Palestinians are not Christians and Moslems. Our identity as people is far more complex than can be discovered through our genes.
__________________ A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench. Isaiah 42:3 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Ad Jesum per Mariam |
4th November 2009, 10:21 AM
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Reps: 10,847,576,709,873,882 (power: 0) | | | Anyone can become a Jew, but not anyone can become a Hebrew. |
4th November 2009, 11:48 AM
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Reps: 686,793,195,995,017,728 (power: 686,793,195,995,020) | | Originally Posted by JudaicChristian Anyone can become a Jew, but not anyone can become a Hebrew.
True! a Jew, yes, with enough effort anyone can become one. To become Hebrew it helps to be born as one, then you automatically a Jew 
My birth certificate has "dat" - religion as יהודי , Judaism. I always wondered if that is also happens in any Christian denoms? Like, can a newborn be considered to be "born catholic"? Or baptism technically doesnt make one officially a catholic yet, do you know?
But why in world would anyone want to be born a hebrew of all things? troubles and tribulations provided amost nonstop ...  |
4th November 2009, 01:17 PM
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Reps: 1,552,024,252,791,795,200 (power: 1,552,024,252,791,803) | | Originally Posted by Desert Rose True! a Jew, yes, with enough effort anyone can become one. To become Hebrew it helps to be born as one, then you automatically a Jew
My birth certificate has "dat" - religion as יהודי , Judaism. I always wondered if that is also happens in any Christian denoms? Like, can a newborn be considered to be "born catholic"? Or baptism technically doesnt make one officially a catholic yet, do you know?
But why in world would anyone want to be born a hebrew of all things? troubles and tribulations provided amost nonstop ...
No, you cannot be born a Christian. |
4th November 2009, 10:31 PM
|  | pursuing Christ
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| | Join Date: 12th April 2005 Location: in Christ
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Reps: 686,740,314,295,649,152 (power: 686,740,314,295,668) | | Originally Posted by kisstheson authentic Jews need reply...
what do you think of the statement: "There are no Jews"?
an atheist said that and I want your honest opinion.
what do you consider to be an "authentic Jew"?
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"If God leads you to walk a way that you know, it will not benefit you as much as if He would lead you to take the way that you do not know. This forces you to have hundreds and thousands of conversations with Him, resulting in a journey that is an everlasting memorial between you and Him."
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5th November 2009, 03:09 AM
|  | Messianic Hebrew Christian
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Reps: 1,844,544,520,064,472,064 (power: 1,844,544,520,064,490) | | Originally Posted by Heber No, you cannot be born a Christian.
Amen to that! Christians are twice born people.
__________________ "We are already one. But we imagine that we are not. And what we have to recover is our original unity." Thomas Merton God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners.
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5th November 2009, 07:40 AM
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Reps: 1,100,777,478,970,303,104 (power: 1,100,777,478,970,327) | | Originally Posted by Heber No, you cannot be born a Christian.
Nonsense. I was born a Christian, and so was my daughter. So were my parents, grandparents and great grandparents, back into history and beyond.
Just as the Lord was born a Jew, into a Jewish home, so was I born a Christian, into a Christian home.
If faith has to be adopted by volition only by consenting adults, why on earth did God go to all that trouble to choose a people for his own, and make Abraham the Father of them?
__________________ A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench. Isaiah 42:3 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Ad Jesum per Mariam |
5th November 2009, 07:42 AM
| | Anglo Catholic Relict
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Reps: 1,100,777,478,970,303,104 (power: 1,100,777,478,970,327) | | Originally Posted by ContraMundum Amen to that! Christians are twice born people.
Non sequitur.
Twice born does not denote not born into the faith. It denotes born into the faith twice. 
__________________ A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench. Isaiah 42:3 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Ad Jesum per Mariam |
5th November 2009, 07:46 AM
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Reps: 59,589,388,507,789 (power: 59,589,388,512) | | Originally Posted by Catherineanne Nonsense. I was born a Christian, and so was my daughter. So were my parents, grandparents and great grandparents, back into history and beyond.
It's different from being Jewish. Being a Jew means belonging to a people. Being Jewish is innate. Being Christian is not. A Jew can convert to any religion, and they will still be Jewish. The same is not true for Christians. Being Jewish is more than belonging to a religious group. It's sort of like a citizenship.
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5th November 2009, 07:54 AM
| | Anglo Catholic Relict
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Reps: 1,100,777,478,970,303,104 (power: 1,100,777,478,970,327) | | Originally Posted by fremen It's different from being Jewish. Being a Jew means belonging to a people. Being Jewish is innate. Being Christian is not. A Jew can convert to any religion, and they will still be Jewish. The same is not true for Christians. Being Jewish is more than belonging to a religious group. It's sort of like a citizenship.
I agree that being a Christian is different from being a Jew.
However, that is not the point at issue; we are not discussing what Jewish identity is. The assertion was made that we cannot be born Christian. Quite simply, we can.
Just as a Jew can be born a Jew into a Jewish family and home, so can a Christian be born a Christian into a Christian family and home.
__________________ A bruised reed shall He not break, and the smoking flax shall He not quench. Isaiah 42:3 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Ad Jesum per Mariam | | |
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