How were Adam and Eve expected to know?

AV1611VET · #11 1st November 2009, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cabal

It's not a joke.

Your analogy was incomplete, therefore your point is negated.

Yes, it took me a while to understand what E=mc^2 meant, that didn't mean it wasn't true in the interim. However, no-one asked me to take the wheel (sic) of a nuclear reactor with my faulty knowledge, and to do so would be reckless and irresponsible.

Just pretend like Adam and Eve knew what death mean, and you'll [hopefully] understand the passage.

Cabal · #12 1st November 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

My point looks like it went right over Cabal's head.

When you learned E=MC², you knew what E stood for, you knew what M stood for, you knew what C stood for, and you knew what "squared" meant.

If you didn't, I'm sure you asked.

My mistake, I thought your analogy was incomplete.

It so turned out, it was just ridiculous.

Assuming that Adam didn't know what death meant is just so wrong on so many levels, I feel embarrassed having to explain it.

Yeah, I notice you still haven't.

But the reason I usually say something, is because it has to do with verses in the Bible not found in Genesis 1; meaning the potential of understanding drops dramatically for those who refuse to believe the simple principle of "God did it".

In other words, "I have to 'literally' start making stuff up."

Cabal · #13 1st November 2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Just pretend like Adam and Eve knew what death mean, and you'll [hopefully] understand the passage.

Yes, I imagine they would have had to pretend they knew what death meant, when confronted with a choice like they were.

Good point!

The problem with your analogy, AV, is that none of us had to eat a particular fruit before we could even begin to conceptualise what energy, or mass, or squaring numbers was about. There was nothing physical, metaphysical or otherwise that actually didn't allow us to understand these things.

gaara4158 · #14 1st November 2009, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

My point looks like it went right over Cabal's head.

When you learned E=MC², you knew what E stood for, you knew what M stood for, you knew what C stood for, and you knew what "squared" meant.

If you didn't, I'm sure you asked.

Assuming that Adam didn't know what death meant is just so wrong on so many levels, I feel embarrassed having to explain it.

But the reason I usually say something, is because it has to do with verses in the Bible not found in Genesis 1; meaning the potential of understanding drops dramatically for those who refuse to believe the simple principle of "God did it".

So Adam knew what death was, because you say so?
I mean, that is the only possible answer if the Bible isn't going to contradict itself, but then we have the problem of God putting indemonstrable concepts in Adam's mind.
Have you ever considered that perhaps the answer is that the Bible isn't literal?
inb4 /thread

Wedjat · #15 1st November 2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

But the reason I usually say something, is because it has to do with verses in the Bible not found in Genesis 1; meaning the potential of understanding drops dramatically for those who refuse to believe the simple principle of "God did it".

We seem to be stuck on either side of a wall AV
We won't accept that God did it without evidence
You claim that we get crystal clear evidence the moment that we accept that God did it.
You want us to hand over the girl before you give us the money. What kind of evil child abductors would we be if we accepted that offer?

juvenissun · #16 1st November 2009, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by godsmission

Without a knowledge of good and evil how were they supposed to know what to be good or evil was? did God explain to them what good and evil was all about? had they even heard the words before? God could have told them the tree was poisonous but would they have known what poisonous was?
When God said to Adam 'on the day you eat of it you shall surely die' what was God thinking? if there was no death in the garden of Eden how could Adam possibly understand what death was? perhaps he thought it was something nice?
Perhaps someone could explain how creationists see this because I don't think the majority of Christians take Genesis literally.

You should read the Genesis more carefully before asking this question. It is not that hard, only a few short pages.

God says: You should not eat it.

Is that clear enough?

peadar1987 · #17 2nd November 2009, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by juvenissun

You should read the Genesis more carefully before asking this question. It is not that hard, only a few short pages.

God says: You should not eat it.

Is that clear enough?

Why did God even bother to say it though. He knew they would definitely eat the fruit. And why did he put the tree there in the first place? And don't give me the standard horse manure about loving us enough to give us free choice. If my brother, who I love, was a recovering heroin addict, I wouldn't leave a spoon, some cotton wool, an AIDS-infected syringe and €1500 worth of smack in a room with him, because I love him enough to let him make the choice whether or not to ruin his own life!

And that neglects the fact that for the analogy to be fully accurate, I would have to be directly responsible for his heroin problem in the first place

AV1611VET · #18 2nd November 2009, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

Why did God even bother to say it though. He knew they would definitely eat the fruit.

So they would realize they were wrong when He judged them.

After all, had He not said anything, then they could have said, "Well, you didn't tell us not to."

Originally Posted by peadar1987

And why did he put the tree there in the first place?

* Warning: ad hoc question --- so here comes an ad lib answer: *

I don't really know why, but a pet theory of mine is that that tree bore fruit meant for the angels, not for man.

Wedjat · #19 2nd November 2009, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

So they would realize they were wrong when He judged them.

After all, had He not said anything, then they could have said, "Well, you didn't tell us not to."

* Warning: ad hoc question --- so here comes an ad lib answer: *

I don't really know why, but a pet theory of mine is that that tree bore fruit meant for the angels, not for man.

Realizing that it's your pet theory and not backed by the Bible (so I'm not really arguing this, just asking a question)
What would food for angels be doing on earth? Beyond that, why would angels (spiritual beings) need/want food in the first place?

peadar1987 · #20 2nd November 2009, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

So they would realize they were wrong when He judged them.

After all, had He not said anything, then they could have said, "Well, you didn't tell us not to."

* Warning: ad hoc question --- so here comes an ad lib answer: *

I don't really know why, but a pet theory of mine is that that tree bore fruit meant for the angels, not for man.

Surely God, in his infinite power, could have come up with a more foolproof solution than putting the forbidden fruit in easy reach, right in the middle of the Garden?! I really don't see how Adam and Eve could really be blamed, and I especially don't see how I, personally, should be blamed!