Andrew Wommack

To claim a statement like that is innocuous leaves me dumbfounded...

And in light of our ongoing conversation about judgment and punishment - where I specifically said I would Kick Bentley out of the church (no one else said that) - for you to then attempt to side step your poorly veiled personal attack by claiming it wasn't addressed to me personally, it nothing short of cowardice.

ps. Please tell me what exactly you expect the Apostle Paul and Jesus to reap, for their criticism of the church?

Lei, you speak so much truth, and had no idea that I was a Calvanist!

I disagree with this point:
"This means that until a person is born again (see note 2 at Jn. 3:3, p. 48), he cannot receive the Holy Spirit."

- Born again *is* receiving the Spirit!

" . . . he saved us, by the washing (baptism, complete washing) of regeneration (new birth), and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly (not in part) through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:5-6)

- We are saved by receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, otherwise known as the new birth. The Spirit is given fully, not in part.

Jesus spoke of this in Acts 1v4-5, 8 where he also referred to it as receiving "the promise of the Father", and receiving power.

So, Jesus returned to the Father (Acts 1v9) and began to shed forth the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4, as previously predicted:

John 7:39: (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive:
for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

See also:
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth" (John 15:26)

". . . if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7)

Even after the resurrection Jesus said:
". . Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father" (John 20:17)

At Pentecost, after his ascension, Jesus sent the Spirit from Heaven, i.e. from above .. "born again" literally means "born from above":
"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear" (referring to the speaking in tongues) (Acts 2:33)

"The wind blows (the spirit breathes) where it listeth, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell whence it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)

(later in Acts 11:15 Peter refers to this as "the beginning" . . . birth is the beginning!)

The disciples were born again at Pentecost, the "baptism in the Spirit" and "receiving the promise of the Spirit" are synonymous terms for the same thing.

That's why Paul says the baptism in the Spirit is how God adds people to his church:

"by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." (1Cor. 12:13)

- you cannot be saved by Jesus and not in his church!!


Do you agree?

No I do not, I appreciate your approach though.

I held this view when I was an apostolic oneness pentecostal, but not for long though.

You must be one, or a member of the trinitarian version - THE REVIVAL FELLOWSHIP

Actually, all of his points are scripturally sound. The born again experience is being immersed into the forgiveness of your sins, ie The Holy Spirit. That's the true immersion of The Holy Spirit.

I looked over what he posted to see if it was a oneness position, and I didn't catch anything that was in his post unless I missed something.