Your statements are not consistent. How can one be a "man of God" and be a "false teacher"? You were caught contradicting yourself and instead of correcting the contradiction, you now try to make it seem like someone can be a loving and caring man of God and be a false teacher. Can't you just admit you contradicted yourself instead of acting like this is what you really meant to say?
The truth of the matter is that you have been unstable throughout this entire thread. Your main objection to Wommack's teachings was that he teaches a "works based" salvation. After being proven completely and utterly wrong on this, you change the subject (red-herring) and start attacking Wommack for teaching WOF doctrines, revealing your REAL reason for attacking Wommack. You weren't attacking him because you think he teaches a "works based" salvation. You were attacking him because he is a WOF teacher. You claim to be a Berean. But the Bereans searched the scriptures to see if a teaching was scriptural. You, apparantly, searched Wommack's teachings attempting to find something that appeared unscriptural (and failed miserably). There is a stark contrast between how the Bereans did things with how you do things. Do not call yourself a Berean.
It is this attitude displayed in people like you that actually VALIDATES Wommack and his teachings. When someone has to go through his teachings looking for things that appear wrong, when someone contradicts themselves in their statements and attempts to cover it up, when someone uses GED scholarship to show someone to be a heretic (stealing quotes off of websites that came from books the person never even read), when someone ignores all evidence to the contrary, ALL of these things lets me know the person being attacked is probably someone worth listening to. Ben's recommendation of Wommack was good enough for me to want to check him out, but your posts sealed the deal. Now I REALLY want to check him out. Instead of leading someone away from Wommack and his teachings, you led someone TO them. If Wommack's teachings change my life, I'll be sure to come back and thank you. God bless you.
Hi WC,
So here you are a loving and caring person or Child of God, and you probably teach false teaching!
We can discuss this as much as we like, and we can go here and there, and it will still make no differences because one false teacher, will also feed false teaching from other false teachers, and because the hearers of this teaching hear the same false teaching from two other false teachers, then they will believe that it’s right, and not false.
The deception that is put out by “corporate Christianity” is nothing more than “counterfeit Christianity”, and each country has their form of “corporate, counterfeit Christianity” that are led by leaders whose poison will proliferate the airways of the Body of Christ and NEVER be tested. Because it sounds nice, then it must be right.
We all know that we are in the last days of perilous times and HIS Kingdom has been infiltrated by Satan’s forces through false teachers who don’t even know that they are seducing and deceiving, and don’t test the own spirits or teaching. When I see other leaders promote the teachings of other false teachers, such as Andrew does, and then any real guidance from the Holy Spirit will be almost impossible to know if you are being deceived by one of these philosophers of empty deceit (Col. 2:8)!
Most of us are aware that Satan knows the Bible better than most of us do, therefore, it’s imperative that believers become Bereans and ask our Messiah for wisdom and knowledge to keep them safe from falling into false doctrine. Just look at the damage Todd Bentley did in such a short time, and when anyone spoke out against this man, all condemnation and damnation came down upon those people who spoke out against this man.
Throughout HIS WORD we are warned of such people, and if we are not in touch with other believers and don’t read His Word, then we will fall victim to the traps that are set by the many false teachers or prophets who teach a philosophy that isn’t of our Messiah (Col. 2:8).
As much as we can debate, there is "NO EXCUSE" if those who speak out are labelled “criticisers” or any other from of label as the followers of those false teachers try their hardest to cover up the real truth that discerning and concerned believes are speaking out as HIS Watchmen. We are warned in Ezekiel 3:16-27 and HIS People are still being lead astray. As believers, how are we going to explain our actions to our Messiah on the day of judgement?
The Body of Christ so-called Christians are searching for HIM in all sorts of places except the place that he gave them, HIS WORD, as they would rather read other watered-down versions of the Bible and books full of opinions and beliefs telling them about HIM and how to find HIM through many forms of empty deceit and opening themselves up to deception and seduction.
Today, we are in a Spiritual War and HIS rules and principle of engagement are well written in HIS WORD, but how will you know what to do if you haven't read HIS Operational Instructions?
HE said through John of false teachers: “These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him” (1 John 2:26-27).
Look Pete, You were the one who started down this road with your post, I quote:
On the flip side, when I see a poster constantly talking about judgment, punishment, kicking people out of the church, etc., then likewise, it is obvious that is what is in their heart.
I don't really care what people read, but don't try to come across 'Holier than thou' when you post that sort of personal attack.
You have a remarkable ability to take things personally. I am further dumbfounded how you can take an innocuous statement, that wasn't even addressed to you personally, pertaining to being able to tell a tree by its fruit, and call it an "attack".
This victim mentality is interesting to watch though.
Originally Posted by Simon Peter
As for 'reaping what you sow', as I said before, I agree that it is a Biblical principle. But to try to apply it to every situation is a typical WoF approach.
Maybe so, but applying it willy-nilly when it's convenient seems to be a typical non-WoF approach.
What a man sows, that will he also reap. Pretty simple concept. Pretty straightforward.
Originally Posted by Simon Peter
I would encourage caution, after all, the prophets, apostles and Christ Himself was critical of believers.
Yeah, um, OK. I'm not sure people who hold to the teachings of Balaam would be called "believers".
And I have no idea what any of this has to do with Andrew Wommack...
__________________ "You're so vain, you probably think this post is about you."
Look Pete, You were the one who started down this road with your post, I quote:
On the flip side, when I see a poster constantly talking about judgment, punishment, kicking people out of the church, etc., then likewise, it is obvious that is what is in their heart.
I don't really care what people read, but don't try to come across 'Holier than thou' when you post that sort of personal attack.
Originally Posted by probinson
You have a remarkable ability to take things personally. I am further dumbfounded how you can take an innocuous statement, that wasn't even addressed to you personally, pertaining to being able to tell a tree by its fruit, and call it an "attack".
This victim mentality is interesting to watch though.
To claim a statement like that is innocuous leaves me dumbfounded...
And in light of our ongoing conversation about judgment and punishment - where I specifically said I would Kick Bentley out of the church (no one else said that) - for you to then attempt to side step your poorly veiled personal attack by claiming it wasn't addressed to me personally, it nothing short of cowardice.
ps. Please tell me what exactly you expect the Apostle Paul and Jesus to reap, for their criticism of the church?
Last edited by Simon Peter; 8th November 2009 at 10:09 AM.
Reason: ps.
I disagree with this point: "This means that until a person is born again (see note 2 at Jn. 3:3, p. 48), he cannot receive the Holy Spirit."
- Born again *is* receiving the Spirit!
" . . . he saved us, by the washing (baptism, complete washing) of regeneration (new birth), and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly (not in part) through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:5-6)
- We are saved by receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, otherwise known as the new birth. The Spirit is given fully, not in part.
Jesus spoke of this in Acts 1v4-5, 8 where he also referred to it as receiving "the promise of the Father", and receiving power.
So, Jesus returned to the Father (Acts 1v9) and began to shed forth the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4, as previously predicted:
John 7:39: (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
See also: "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth" (John 15:26)
". . . if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (John 16:7)
Even after the resurrection Jesus said:
". . Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father" (John 20:17)
At Pentecost, after his ascension, Jesus sent the Spirit from Heaven, i.e. from above .. "born again" literally means "born from above": "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear" (referring to the speaking in tongues) (Acts 2:33)
"The wind blows (the spirit breathes) where it listeth, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell whence it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." (John 3:8)
(later in Acts 11:15 Peter refers to this as "the beginning" . . . birth is the beginning!)
The disciples were born again at Pentecost, the "baptism in the Spirit" and "receiving the promise of the Spirit" are synonymous terms for the same thing.
That's why Paul says the baptism in the Spirit is how God adds people to his church:
"by one Spiritare we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." (1Cor. 12:13)
- you cannot be saved by Jesus and not in his church!!
Do you agree?
Last edited by AllTalkNoAction; 8th November 2009 at 12:21 AM.
YES and I believe we receive SALVATION and THE HOLY SPIRIT once we BELIEVE.
. . .we are SEALED upon believing - (ephesian 1v13) . . .
Careful, it doesn't say that:
Eph:1:13: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
People don't necessarily have the Spirit when they believe as best they understand, or make a profession.
Paul was referring back to what happened in Acts 19:1-6
Even after he re-baptised them (v5) he knew they still had not received the Spirit.
See also Acts 8:12-16.
How was it known that the believers who had been baptised unto Jesus had not received the Spirit?
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