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3rd November 2009, 04:03 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,820) | | Originally Posted by ContraMundum  Christians can call it eucharist, amongst other things. We get it from scripture.
καὶ εὐχαριστήσας ἔκλασε καὶ εἶπε· λάβετε φάγετε· τοῦτό μού ἐστι τὸ σῶμα τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν κλώμενον· τοῦτο ποιεῖτε εἰς τὴν ἐμὴν ἀνάμνησιν. 1 Cor. 11:24
There's a number of references like this in scripture.
Even the scripture you point to is of the Passover Seder and not the euchrist.
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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles. |
4th November 2009, 03:24 AM
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Reps: 1,844,544,520,064,472,064 (power: 1,844,544,520,064,490) | | Originally Posted by visionary Even the scripture you point to is of the Passover Seder and not the euchrist. We know your point of view, Vis.
You don't believe in the means of grace or the vital relationship between Pesach and the Lord's Supper/Eucharist/Mass/Lord's Table/Holy Communion as Christians do, so I have no idea why you have to bring this rabbit trail up and then press the point. You know Christians have thought this out to the fullest for around 2000 years and the truth is not going to change because you think everyone has been wrong and clueless about scripture all that time.
Would it be ok with you if we stayed on topic?
__________________ "We are already one. But we imagine that we are not. And what we have to recover is our original unity." Thomas Merton God creates out of nothing. Wonderful you say. Yes, to be sure, but he does what is still more wonderful: he makes saints out of sinners.
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Last edited by ContraMundum; 4th November 2009 at 03:32 AM.
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4th November 2009, 06:56 AM
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4th November 2009, 12:22 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,820) | | Originally Posted by ContraMundum We know your point of view, Vis.
You don't believe in the means of grace or the vital relationship between Pesach and the Lord's Supper/Eucharist/Mass/Lord's Table/Holy Communion as Christians do, so I have no idea why you have to bring this rabbit trail up and then press the point. You know Christians have thought this out to the fullest for around 2000 years and the truth is not going to change because you think everyone has been wrong and clueless about scripture all that time.
Would it be ok with you if we stayed on topic?
You seem to need reminding that MJ does not believe the euchrist has anything to do with the means of grace or have any vital relationship with Pesach. You should know by now not to throw it around in the MJ section of the forum like it is some approved position. Anyone lurking around reading these posts does not need to get the swrong impression about MJ.
You need to stop throwing in rabbit trails.
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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles. |
4th November 2009, 12:44 PM
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Reps: 1,552,024,252,791,795,200 (power: 1,552,024,252,791,803) | | | I don't think anyone can make such a categorical statement, Vis. By what right do you declare this to be the case? Until MJism gets a theology and a statement of faith to which all members must adhere, you simply cannot assert what MJism believes, or not, and neither can anyone else.
I do not usually disagree with you enough to post against you, but on this occasion you are in error on this issue. |
4th November 2009, 12:49 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,820) | | Originally Posted by Heber I don't think anyone can make such a categorical statement, Vis. By what right do you declare this to be the case? Until MJism gets a theology and a statement of faith to which all members must adhere, you simply cannot assert what MJism believes, or not, and neither can anyone else.
I do not usually disagree with you enough to post against you, but on this occasion you are in error on this issue.
Can you find any MJ organization that agrees with Contra on this issue? MJAA?
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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles. |
4th November 2009, 01:22 PM
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Reps: 1,552,024,252,791,795,200 (power: 1,552,024,252,791,803) | | | You actually said MJism doesn't believe - thus declaring that ALL MJism doesn't believe in the word or action of eucharist etc.
That is wrong. There are many within MJism who do believe in the eucharist and many who see a very clear connection between it and Passover.
I take it you know what the eucharist is? Not sure what the reference to MJAA has to do with it - that is but one small part of the worldwide MJish movement - it is NOT a defining body for that movement. |
4th November 2009, 01:43 PM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,820) | | | You need to point to a body, a large enough body of MJ who support euchrist. From my knowledge, which I will not declare as vast by any stretch of the imagination, one of the unique features of MJ, is their "judaic worship style" which would not include roman ideology.
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Since the Torah is a finite book expressing the will of an infinite God, many lessons must be derivable from each passage from all the infinite angles. |
4th November 2009, 01:58 PM
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Reps: 1,552,024,252,791,795,200 (power: 1,552,024,252,791,803) | | You need to point to a body, a large enough body of MJ who support euchrist. Why? You made a categorical statement that MESSIANIC JUDAISM does not believe in the eucharist - the context in which you wrote was that no one under that name believed in any form of eucharist. That is patently wrong. You DID NOT say any one organisation - you claimed that the WHOLE of MJism didn't and you are wrong. I know plenty of Messianic believers who believe in, and go to, some form of communion / Lord's supper / eucharist etc etc.
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4th November 2009, 01:58 PM
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| | Join Date: 31st July 2007
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Reps: 59,589,388,507,789 (power: 59,589,388,512) | | | This sort of summarizes something I have yet to understand: Is MJism a religion of its own, or a Jewish flavor of Protestant/Evangelical Christianity? I've seen some write about this, but never really understood.
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