I do not dish out to you, never have, never will and here you are boasting about dishing... that's just plain wrong...
my appologies...
consider your own sin too....
to say that those of us that do not see what you see, are not in Christ, is plain wrong too...
you are actually judging us and that is against forum and the Bible's rules.
Originally Posted by zeke37
And we are not gone... we are here...I can prove that
and we must endure the tribulation, by being in it,
being protected by the Holy Spirit and knowledgable by the Word will enable a person to be "kept" safe from being tempted in the hour of temptation...
we are all here for it. it is a test for all of us...
Satan comes first, pretrending to be Jesus returned...
that is why pre trib is so dangerous..
pre trib already expects Jesus to come first...
to rapture you
but the truth is that Satan comes first to try to deceive/seduce you...
see why pre trib is dangerous? you might believe the first one that comes claiming to be Jesus. and that means that you'd be the one taken....
That is not what Lord Jesus told us...
sure it is...you for some reason have it backwards..
IN CONTEXT, same conversattion that Jesus is haveing right here
Matthew 24:40-42 (KJV) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
THE LORD
exactly...
one stillworking in the fields.....(a metaphore for working for God)...one not doing his/her job anymore one stillon the rooftops ...........(watchmen stayed on the rooftops to look for the enemy)...one not doing his/her job anymore one stillgrinding at the mill.......(getting the food out...another metaphore for spreading the Word)...one not doing his/her job anymore
so, one staying here and working for God, watching for the enemy, getting the truth out there.... and the other is taken in deceit.
Jesus would wonder, who would still be working for Him when He returned... this is what He was refering to.
the ones taken, are not taken by Christ.... they are taken by the flood of lies that come from Satan's mouth... deceived/beguiled/seduced/turned from virgins for Christ into whores for Satan...
that is why woe to them that are pregnant or have young in those days... meaning that the false Christ would have impregnated you with his lies... instead of you remaining faithful thus a virgin for Christ (your husband) to come.
Matthew 25:1-12 (KJV) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. [2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. [3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. [5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. [6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. [7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. [8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. [9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. [10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. [11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. [12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Matthew 25:13 (KJV) Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
SON OF MAN
50% of the people who believe they are Christinas are actually not in Christ at all and He will take the ones whom He comes for to the Wedding, they will leave with HIM and then the ones who were left becuase they were NOT ready, will try to get in and HE will say to them
Matthew 25:12 (KJV) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
while I may agree that there are some Christians who are sayers of the Word and not doers of the Word, the vast majority believe that He is the Messiah...
they might not know what that really means etc...
and they may be hypocrites (as we all from time to time)
but God sure does know them better than they know themselves...
which is why He has devised this amazing plan to get together all the good children and live forever with them in paradise here on earth
and get rid of the ones that just won't come around.
but some of the Christians need further refinement.... God WILL save them, and their mere belief in Christ proves that. It is the when that many do not see..
some are saved in the Millennium...some before the tribulation.
there is a great teaching time coming in the Millennium, according to Ez40-48, particularly 44, and Rev20 when God's firstfruits shall teach the rest of the believers (not elect ones) ...those who went along with the entire planet and worshiped Satan as God, thinking he was Christ returned (Christians that were beguiled/seduced by Satan's false lamb role), will be taught the truth for the entire 1000 years....
along with anyone that never had a chance at believing in Christ... God is fair...
and if they beleive,
God will save them then.
then at Millennium's end, Satan is released again and does his thing... gathers those that won't come around, and surrounds the temple (those that have come around, the elect firstfruits and Jesus)
and then Judgement.
so, God will use the mark of the beast against both Chrsitians and non-Christians
He will even blind some to truth, because He does know them better then they know themselves..
by blinding them to the truth about the antiChrist, He effectively keeps them innocent of taking the mark...
God has blinded them, to save them later in the Millennium.
many Christians will be suduced by Satan's false Messiah/prophet role.
The entire Post-trib understanind of us having to reamin here is flawed and this is the small piece of "leaven" that you are using that makes the entire meal contaminated... WE do NOT go before the GT starts either...that is another thread all together...
well, we disagree... and I can easily prove post trib Biblically many ways... but you are already convinced of another understanding. time will heal all things friend.
We are not included with the souls in Rev20 unless you meet the requirments...
the souls in Rev20 are the elect firstfruits.... if you are refering to 20:4. Both those martyred in the past and those alive through the trib who do not take his mark....
remember that there was no commas or punctuation when this was written...Rev20:4 that was added my man's inspiration 100's and even 1000's of years later.
there are those that are martyred in the past, and those that do not receive the mark or worship him as God.
there is no such thing as a pre trib or mid trib rapture... your understanding is flawed in many ways... seeing Christ return in Rev6's 6th seal is one of them. Christ returns after that....at the conclusion of the 7th seal's info, which contains all the trumps and vials. He returns at the 7th trump, and 7th vial.....conclusion of the 7th seal.
all the vials are poured out all at one time, according to the edimology of the word for cup/vial.
The people in Rev 6 who are spoken of in the 5th seal are not the same people in the multitude which no man can number in chapter 7 just becuase they all have white robes...
I never said that they were... but i am sure that they are at least included in that multitude... and I believe that the sealed elect in Rev7 are part of that group too...
and I am sure that they (5th seal) are of the ones that lost their head, like John the baptizer or were martyred another way, that we see in Rev20:4... as I think that the elect in Rev7, are those that did not take the mark or worship him
these are alive to be gathered to Christ when He comes.
the multitude....
IMO they are the offspring (spiritually speaking) of the firstfruits, who are those sealed (in Rev7) and alive to be gathered..... or martyred in Rev6's 5th seal....
so IMO this is a Millennial scene, not a tribulation scene.... all those that come around in the Millennium because of the work of the firstfruits (Rev20/Ez44) all believers...all of them...
...no man can number that number.... so it is not any time before the Millennium right? make sense right?
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Last edited by zeke37; 4th November 2009 at 04:12 AM.
to say that those of us that do not see what you see, are not in Christ, is plain wrong too...
never said that...
Originally Posted by zeke37
you are actually judging us and that is against forum and the Bible's rules.
By making a statement of truth is not judging, it is sharing, it is the one that it MIGHT apply to that make the judgement
Originally Posted by zeke37
sure it is...you for some reason have it backwards..
I believe that it is you are seeing this in a backwards understanding
And I say that if you place the TWO scriptures together the one in 25 explains the one in 24... like Lord Jesus always does... first He shows something and then He explains it... the ones who are taken are Christians. We do not have to stay here, we leave, get white robes and palms and stand before the throne singing...not staying and enduring the wrath of GOD with special exceptions of not being harmed because we all prayed a special prayer...
Originally Posted by zeke37
one stillworking in the fields.....(a metaphore for working for God)...one not doing his/her job anymore
You are doing what is called EMBELISING, in other words you are ADDING to what is written to make it more attractive and believable... LORD Jesus simply said one taken, the other left in both the field and the mill... ONE taken after a job well done and the other left to suffer the consequences of continuing in sin... One taken to the marriage supper and the other left still looking for oil
Originally Posted by zeke37
one stillon the rooftops ...........(watchmen stayed on the rooftops to look for the enemy)...one not doing his/her job anymore one stillgrinding at the mill.......(getting the food out...another metaphore for spreading the Word)...one not doing his/her job anymore
No, Lord Jesus explained the literals of what you are calling metaphor’s in the following verses and it is very clear that He is talking about people being taken to a better place and the ones who are left will be weeping and gnashing their teeth in unanswered regret...
Originally Posted by zeke37
so, one staying here and working for God, watching for the enemy, getting the truth out there.... and the other is taken in deceit.
No, one taken to a dinner engagement and the others left here to suffer
Originally Posted by zeke37
Jesus would wonder, who would still be working for Him when He returned... this is what He was refering to.
And He has those good and faithful servants enter into their rest after He finds them doing what He left them to do…
Originally Posted by zeke37
the ones taken, are not taken by Christ.... they are taken by the flood of lies that come from Satan's mouth... deceived/beguiled/seduced/turned from virgins for Christ into whores for Satan...
The seduction believes in the exact opposite of the very words and meanings that are clearly explained by Lord Jesus Himself
Originally Posted by zeke37
that is why woe to them that are pregnant or have young in those days... meaning that the false Christ would have impregnated you with his lies... instead of you remaining faithful thus a virgin for Christ (your husband) to come.
Not a metaphor, it is the terrible feeling of having a child during this awful time. In that one would not only have to look out for themselves but have the added responsibility of looking out for another as well...
Originally Posted by zeke37
which is why He has devised this amazing plan to get together all the good children and live forever with them in paradise here on earth
What you are talking about happens after the 1,000 years in all over and dung with...
Originally Posted by zeke37
there is a great teaching time coming in the Millennium, according to Ez40-48, particularly 44, and Rev20 when God's firstfruits shall teach the rest of the believers (not elect ones) ...those who went along with the entire planet and worshiped Satan as God, thinking he was Christ returned (Christians that were beguiled/seduced by Satan's false lamb role), will be taught the truth for the entire 1000 years....
According to you all the beguiled and seduced by the devil will get another chance to change during the 1,000 years... show us that in the Word of GOD
Originally Posted by zeke37
along with anyone that never had a chance at believing in Christ...
Again show us that in the Word of GOD
Originally Posted by zeke37
then at Millennium's end, Satan is released again and does his thing... gathers those that won't come around, and surrounds the temple (those that have come around, the elect firstfruits and Jesus)
Not those that won't come around...it says Rev. 20:7-8 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Originally Posted by zeke37
and then Judgement.
Well first, Father GOD "torches" the planet and then the WTJ... but that is close to what happens after all of this stuff we are in right now and the 1,000 years
Originally Posted by zeke37
so, God will use the mark of the beast against both Chrsitians and non-Christians He will even blind some to truth; because He does know them better then they know themselves.By blinding them to the truth about the antiChrist, He effectively keeps them innocent of taking the mark...
God has blinded them, to save them later in the Millennium.
Chapter and verse in context would be nice to explain this Millennium classroom that you are showing here...
Originally Posted by zeke37
there is no such thing as a pre trib or mid trib rapture... your understanding is flawed in many ways... seeing Christ return in Rev6's 6th seal is one of them. Christ returns after that....at the conclusion of the 7th seal's info, which contains all the trumps and vials. He returns at the 7th trump, and 7th vial.....conclusion of the 7th seal.
YEAH, but the multitude that no man can number is evidenced after the 6th seal... did Apostle John miss understand what he saw... did he place then as being before the Throne in Heaven in the wrong place and never mention them at all during the 7th seal? I know that there is another reference to a multitude in Rev 19... but that particular wording Rev. 7:9 (KJV) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; EXCEPT Rev. 17:15 (KJV) And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. These are the unsaved here... AND Rev. 13:7 (KJV) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
These are the people who do not go...in neither verse are the clothed in white robe and described as being in heaven.... they are a reference, but not a reference of the "harpazo"
Originally Posted by zeke37
these are alive to be gathered to Christ when He comes. so IMO this is a Millennial scene, not a tribulation scene.... all those that come around in the Millennium because of the work of the firstfruits (Rev20/Ez44) all believers...all of them...
...no man can number that number.... so it is not any time before the Millennium right? make sense right?
Firstly, if that amount of peoples, kindreds, tongues and nations were in fact here where you are saying, then Apostle John would have said so, he did not. Therefore they are not And No, it does not make sense that GOD would allow all those who rejected salvation during this time to get another 1,000 years of time to get it right, only to get deceived again at the end of the 1,000 years and still get tossed in the Lake-O-Fire at the very end... which is exactly what happens after the 1,000 years is over...it says
Rev. 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. AND Rev. 20:7-8 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Thanks
__________________
What Can I Do While I Wait For Jesus To Come Back?
As you look forward to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ, keep yourself busy by doing the things Jesus wants you to do (James 4:17)
By making a statement of truth is not judging, it is sharing, it is the one that it MIGHT apply to that make the judgement
sure you did...
post number 6
I believe that it is you are seeing this in a backwards understanding
alright then, no problem
And I say that if you place the TWO scriptures together the one in 25 explains the one in 24... like Lord Jesus always does... first He shows something and then He explains it... the ones who are taken are Christians.
I never said that they were not Christians... I know that they are ... just beguiled ones/seduced ones.
We do not have to stay here,
yes we do
we leave,
na
get white robes and palms and stand before the throne singing...
not unless you are killed befoerhand, or are speaking of a time after.
not staying and enduring the wrath of GOD with special exceptions of not being harmed because we all prayed a special prayer...
Satan's wrath and God's wrath are two different things..
we are alll here for Satan's wrath... for there are two tribulations/wraths coming... one of Satan and one of God
so Satan's first which we are all here for
but after that....
the elect are gathered to Christ when He pours His wrath
You are doing what is called EMBELISING, in other words you are ADDING to what is written to make it more attractive and believable...
na, you are...
LORD Jesus simply said one taken, the other left in both the field and the mill... ONE taken after a job well done and the other left to suffer the consequences of continuing in sin... One taken to the marriage supper and the other left still looking for oil
now IMO, it is you that is assuming all these things..
we're here for the trib, and Satan is too, and from his mouth comes a flood of lies that will TAKE many... even cause them to leave their WORK/WATCH STATION
No, Lord Jesus explained the literals of what you are calling metaphor’s in the following verses and it is very clear that He is talking about people being taken to a better place and the ones who are left will be weeping and gnashing their teeth in unanswered regret...
again, you are the one adding
No, one taken to a dinner engagement and the others left here to suffer
to each their own...
And He has those good and faithful servants enter into their rest after He finds them doing what He left them to do…
since this is post trib Coming that He is refering to, you got it wrong.
gotta be still working for Him when He comes POST TRIB..still watching
The seduction believes in the exact opposite of the very words and meanings that are clearly explained by Lord Jesus Himself
??
Not a metaphor, it is the terrible feeling of having a child during this awful time. In that one would not only have to look out for themselves but have the added responsibility of looking out for another as well...
nope...seduction...spiritually impregnated by Satan's lies...
withchild or giving suck to young, instead of being virgins for Christ... whoreing with Satan... believing he is Christ and worshiping him instead of being faithful till the end
God loves children and pregnant mothers...
What you are talking about happens after the 1,000 years in all over and dung with...
it is rooted in this time, and is what the TEST of the antiChrist is all about...
the temptation
that's what prooves who is who and who
then the Millennium
refinement
and then the refined get to go into paradise
According to you all the beguiled and seduced by the devil will get another chance to change during the 1,000 years... show us that in the Word of GOD
I have...many times Ez 44 and Rev20 show teaching by the elect... Rev18:4 shows some come out of Babylon
just to name a few
God is fair, and like Jesus went to the other side and preached...and many saw the truth and came around, so to will God be fair and allow everyone the real chance at choosing Him over death
God is fair right? some native on an Island, that never heard of Christ has the same chance as you and I right? 100o years, and in that time, God will save those that He purposefully blinded to truth...
blinded in 2Thes2 but saved in the Millennium
1Cor5:3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
we are all changed from flesh to spirit at the Coming of Christ...1Cor15
Not those that won't come around...it says Rev. 20:7-8 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
IMO, those are NOT the one that God blinded...they are the rest (evil to the bone people)
the ones that God blinded have been taught the truth, seen the truth and are now in the temple... saved/protected
Well first, Father GOD "torches" the planet and then the WTJ... but that is close to what happens after all of this stuff we are in right now and the 1,000 years
I think the torching of the planet is the Lake of Fire
Chapter and verse in context would be nice to explain this Millennium classroom that you are showing here...
1Cor5, Ez44, Rev20 to start
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YEAH, but the multitude that no man can number is evidenced after the 6th seal... did Apostle John miss understand what he saw... did he place then as being before the Throne in Heaven in the wrong place and never mention them at all during the 7th seal?
explained my opinion on that already
it is a Millennial scene..the conclusion of the classroom...probably right after Jugement.
offspring of the teachers (firstfruits) who are sealed in the beginning of the same chapter...
and since we differ on who these people are, we will probably differ on where they are seen in scripture, either past this point...or before this point...
I know that there is another reference to a multitude in Rev 19... but that particular wording Rev. 7:9 (KJV) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; EXCEPT Rev. 17:15 (KJV) And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. These are the unsaved here...
well, actually imo, they are the fooled/seduced/beguiled Christians...because they are called whores...
as opposed to virgins
but not unsaved forever...they shall come around
some will come out before Chrsit returns...Rev18:4 some in the Lord's Day1Cor5:3-5
AND Rev. 13:7 (KJV) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
These are the people who do not go...in neither verse are the clothed in white robe and described as being in heaven.... they are a reference, but not a reference of the "harpazo"
power over the Saints (Christians) means that he seduces them...fools them....beguiles them...
showing that they are still here then too!!!! right?
turns them from from virgins for Christ into whores for antiChrist
Firstly, if that amount of peoples, kindreds, tongues and nations were in fact here where you are saying, then Apostle John would have said so, he did not. Therefore they are not
actually, if you believe like I do that Christ is Coming here, to set up the Millennial Kingdom, then John kinda did tell us that...2+2=4
And No, it does not make sense that GOD would allow all those who rejected salvation during this time to get another 1,000 years of time to get it right, only to get deceived again at the end of the 1,000 years and still get tossed in the Lake-O-Fire at the very end... which is exactly what happens after the 1,000 years is over...it says
you are misunderstanding what I said...
God blinds some of people here (the Christian believers), but not everyone on the planet
those believers, He will refine in the Millennium.... but not all who took the mark were blinded into doing so...
only those believers that God needs to refine, will He blind to the truth so He can refine them and live with them forever..
those who were blinded by God, will have the blinders off, and be saved in that time...
they are going to be in the temple when the evil ones surround it at Millenniums end...protected from the Fire that Comes
Rev. 20:5 (KJV)
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. AND Rev. 20:7-8 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Thanks
the pargraph explains exactly who is in that first ressurection... first one, means that there is a second one it is the elect firstfruits...who are of the first after the 1000 years, there is another....IMO at Judgement
like the first resurrection, there was a first death, which happened to all these when the first Ressurection happened
and likewise there is a second death too, that of the soul, for those that surround the tmple...at Millennium's end...IMO also at Judgement
chow
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I didn't sy much to offend, IMO, but sorry...sorry if I offended you...
I was mearly giving back to B1inHim what that poster regularly dishes out, even if the latter is subtilly done...disguised...
all I said was LOL, and shame
I don't want either of you to be deceived...
the plain fact is, that Satan is coming to deceive the church(us)... to beguile them(us), seduce them(us)... with supernatural wonders/miracles and he will turn somevirgins for Christ(pure Christians=us), into whores for Satan(beguiled/seduced/deceived/worshiping him thinking he is Jesus).
And we are not gone... we are here...I can prove that
and we must endure the tribulation, by being in it,
being protected by the Holy Spirit and knowledgable by the Word will enable a person to be "kept" safe from being tempted in the hour of temptation...
we are all here for it. it is a test for all of us...
Satan comes first, pretrending to be Jesus returned...
that is why pre trib is so dangerous..
pre trib already expects Jesus to come first...
to rapture you
but the truth is that Satan comes first to try to deceive/seduce you...
see why pre trib is dangerous? you might believe the first one that comes claiming to be Jesus. and that means that you'd be the one taken.... taken by the flood of lies that comes from the dragon's mouth... not by Jesus
(not that he can physically take you anywhere...but he is the father of all lies)
you wouldn't be the one left grinding at the mill or in the fields (working for Christ), if you believed this first one...
you'd be gone in the flood, or out bying oil...... (taken in deceit/believing a lie)
you wouldn't be on the roof tops as a watchman, you'd be gone in the flood, deceived/seduced...
(now, I don't mean you specifically)
as for that proof I spoke about... first, when we read Zec4, we should see a picture painted of the Minorah
7 candlesticks being fed oil by 2 olive trees, one on either side.
The 2 olive trees/branches are defined for us in Zec4 as 2 individual prophets, many believe to be Moses and Elijah....
I have a few questions that might show the proof
anyone may answer
1. what does Jesus define the candlesticks as in Rev1 ? 2. how many churches are NOT chastized in any way whatsoever in Rev2-3 ? 3. who are the two distinct groups that make up the two witnesses in Rev11 ?
4. is the church one of those groups ? 5. is the church here against the beast in Rev11 ?
and
6. who does Satan go after when he is cast out of heaven for his short season (hour of temptation), in Rev12 ?
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[/font][/color]this is what post #6 says POST # 6 Well, this isn't some mystery to anyone who is in Christ...
Must be another time...
nope...it is that time...and following that too...
you imply that a person is not in Christ if they do not know the "mystery" of who the antiChrist is. Of course, this mystery is as you see it...
you insult and judge anyone that does not believe as you do...about this "mystery"
I assure you that I am in Christ and I do not believe your "theory"
I apologize for my sin....
Almost every thing that you are showing is preceded with you saying "My opinion"
first off, I believe my opinion...
I have learned from conversations with others, that I can be wrong too... I have changed my specific beliefs with regards to eschotology.... so it is best to say, my opinion, for now...
if we are discussing a thing that I know we do not agree on, then I will say my opinion
I am glad that you are here because it helps keep us on our toes... BTW thanks for that...
I often think the same of pre/mid tribbers...even preterists..
But the entire theory of POST-Trib "harpzo" is based on Supposition [something that is supposed : HYPOTHESIS. the act of supposing] conjecture [interpretation of omens ,an inference from presumptive evidence a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork, a proposition (as in mathematics before it has been prooved or disprooved] And Hypothesis [ an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument, an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences]
... of course I disagree... and have shown many reasons with scripture to support the post trib position as being the only plausible one.
when the dead believers are raised/brought back here to earth with Christ...and gathered to those alive elect at the time...
I am finding it kinda funny how you are in belief that some, most or all of us are seeing the word of GOD and understanding it in the exact opposite of what is written...
as I am that you believe that about me and others here...
We do NOT stay here for the entire 7 years of GT, nor do we stick around during the 1,000 years...
sure we do...but that 7 years has been shortened for the elect's sake... Christ is Coming here forever
Matthew 13:39 (KJV) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
word is AION=age...cool
Matthew 13:49 (KJV) So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
same thing here...
The end of the world brother, does not happen till after ALL of this over and dung with...Rev. 20:9 (KJV) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
THAT is the end of the world... not before
you are misunderstanding the word used for world...it refers to age...a specific time...it refers to this age...not the 1000 years and beyond
And
Before this happens in a little over 1,000 years from right now... the 6th seal still has to be opened and evidenced and then we have the sequential account of Aposlt John recording "After these things" which is after the 6th seal stuff for sure and then directly after he records the "After these things" he records Rev. 7:9 (KJV) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
yep...after....how much after is debatable...
just like how right after Christ opens the SEALS in Rev5, every single being/creature worships Christ... Nowe, that has not happened yet has it?
likewise, I think that large multitude (or as Paul would say, cloud of believers) is a parenthetical scene from after the entire tribualtion... AND after the 2nd Coming , not before...
but we differ on when that 2nd Coming of Christ is...
you think it is before the entire trib and persecution of the beast
I think it is after
Christ Comes back at the 7th trump, not the 6th seal...
and it is to here that he comes, steps down...touches down... earthquake...moves every mountain...makes a path for the elect to get to Him.... symbology
but He is Coming here...landing here...gathering here...
He sets up His Millennial Kingdom here on earth
and gatherstogetherHis election from both heaven and from earth...
as promised or seen in Mat24, Mar13, Luk21, 1Thes4, 1Cor15, Rev14, Rev19....
and many other places.
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Last edited by zeke37; 6th November 2009 at 07:48 AM.
It amazes me how much some people are in denial over the very idea of Satan showing up personally. Disguised as the Angel of Light (False Prophet), by peace he shall destroy, he comes to sit in the Temple...us. He is the one and only Son of Perdition, that is a Biblical fact. Maybe people are afraid to meet him face to face?
__________________ John 14:6
Pray for the truly perscuted brethren in Christ throughout the world.
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